Split - 20v 4age

[irokin]

20 valves are useless unless you use forced induction....your better off with a standard 16 valve for NA

[demuire]

Ermm... that's argueable really.

[irokin]

gotta remember you need to keep the intake velocity up...

[NickAE86]

20 valves are useless unless you use forced induction....your better off with a standard 16 valve for NA

 

mmm, i disagree..i know a few people with 20 valves and they go pretty hard...a friend of mine has one in his sprinter...obliterates my old gze...very fast indeed

 

i'd only ever want to try and s/c a 20v...turbo makes for too many hassles

 

16v n/a are a nice engine that do get and up go...but in my experience the 20v is quicker and has more torque

 

each to their own

[demuire]

Exaclty. Like most other "hot" small capacity engines, the 20V makes most of it's power up high. Hell, even my stock 100kW 16V is a bit of a pig to drive down low, making most of it's power from about 3500RPM or so. Look at the Honda S2000 motor, or even the motor in the IS200, they're rather boring down low, but relatively quick once you get up into the high revs...

 

All else being equal, a 20V 4AGE will almost always be quicker than a 16V 4AGE, it's about the same throughout the rev range but really shines up high...

 

I think the main problem is a lot of people go through all the extra hassles of getting the 20V to fit, only to find that in 95% of their driving it feels just the same as the old 16V...

[Super Jamie]

if a modern 20v efi engine is "useless", then it makes me wonder what status a 4k gets? landfill? this sounds like toymods talk (you wait till i get my turbo/gze/20v)

 

20v engines are goddamn powerful motors for what they are, even stock. have you ever driven one for any extended period of time? i think you'd be surprised at how flexible and driveable they are, they're actually quite nice

 

if you want to race things and win all the time (as would be a comparison of any modification package on toymods because they're all going to be fooly sick street lap machines and drift vessels one day) then any stock 1.6 motor is going to suck no matter what it is. it would even be hard to make a reliable tough N/A 20v motor in a full street trim modern car to fulfill that function, because everything else that races and/or drifts is larger capacity and often factory force inducted

 

but is the engine then "useless"? no. it's an overengineered and slightly overpowered motor for a corolla - a car intended to carry your shopping home in, only in the 90s you can get home before there's condensation on the icecream tub. as far as an overall stock engine package, bonus points go to toyota for making a smooth reliable example in the 20v

 

everything has its place, just because something is compared out of place, doesn't make it broadly and blatantly useless

 

just my 2c

[irokin]

maybe i shouldnt have said useless....perhaps wasted is a better word.

 

how about I quote from bill sherwoods page

 

"The most power I've ever heard of in any 20v 4AGE is about 215hp, or nearly 30hp less than a good 16v 4AGE."

[Super Jamie]

at what rpm, which made more torque in the low and middle parts of the rev range, which revved quicker, which was better on fuel, which blah blah blah

 

outright power does not the better engine make, but as for an overall comparison between a 16v (bigport or smallport?:P) and 20v, i have no idea, and really it would depend on the application

 

you could say any n/a motor is wasted without a turbo, but a turbo motor is more sensitive to heat, there's more to worry about in relation to spark timing and fuel delivery, and there's more bits so there's more that can break. that's where your n/a motors shine - dependability and longevity

 

i think it would be really hard to build a tough AND reliable turbo motor yourself at home, god knows i find it hard enough to build a tough reliable n/a motor, mine's just getting to that stage now!

 

that being said, you can mathematically only get so much power out of a naturally aspirated motor. once you reach 100% VE (which realistically will never happen anyway) then that's it, time to increase capacity or force induct

 

not meaning to be devil's advocate, just there's more sides to every opinion, and it makes for interesting discussion when you have nothing else to do :fuzz:

[Teddy]

I like 4K's !

 

:P

[Super Jamie]

so do i teddy, so do i :P

[Teddy]

"8 Valve is Fully 5ick Bro!"

 

... Add a Side draft webber, cam, port and polish it, add exhaust and supercharge it, and ull neva be unhappy again :P

[irokin]

I'm not gonna argue over 4 bloody valves...

 

I'm just stating what I have read (somewhere...I'm fairly sure it was bills site) that 20valves would be better forced than NA because the port velocity drops too much for it to be optimal...

[Redwarf]

Me and my 3K.... we feel so old sometimes. Why can't I get excited over these new fangled modern multi valve things? :sad:

[Felix]

i feel exactly the same way Rob.

[irokin]

I have to say I agree...as much as most people say 8 valves are land fill its fun to make a 30 year old engine piss all over modern hunks of alloy crap....