camerondownunder88 Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Hi, Stock sumps are crap for racing best to baffle them. Also I believe 5K hydros or after market ones that are anti pump up are umm more expensive than solids. So if ti is a budget I would still go solid as cheaper. And push rods easy crowcams do custom length push rods on the shelf I can give you the length of a 4K-U or A12 datto rod if you want. Will need 4k-U rods if running dished piston 5K solid lifters or if flat top 5K running solids need A12 rods. Also hydrulic lifters since they always run 0 valve clearance they actually create less intake vacuum. Solids having the valve open a fraction gives it a bit more sucking power. So solids also better for this. coln72 I don't doubt you how hard you revved your motor BUT. with stock hydros Toyota manuals say don't exceed 6500RPM after that they suffer pump up. So interesting your lifters still worked well. But a stock K motor don't rev it past 8 grand with out parts being balanced other wise the blocks will crack FAST. If internals are lighter and balanced well rev a lot harder. Also another note there are 3 different kinds of conrods for K motors. All have same part number Toyota just changed shape/weight etc. Now one has a thicker beam. I look for them. They are hte middle one in weight not the heaviest but not the lightest. heaviest ones are well crap more weight means more weight spinning fast etc. Lighter ones look WEAK. So avoid if your making power. Only way to find the rods you have collect K motor conrods..LOL I have MULTIPUL lots at home some are crap ones and some ar e the middle weight thicker beam ones. So just pot luck which ones you get really. Cheers Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogs Posted February 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Thanks cam, Baffling won't cost me much to do myself, so i may as well do it to be safe. I probably do want a bit more than 6 grand, and now remember your previous coment about loss of vacuum :'( So i think i will follow your advice about solids. (now that i think of it i doubt many places would have anti-pump lifters to suit anyway) When i get up to building the engine i will get back in touch with you on how you have done the conversion in the past. I will certainly be getting all the internals balanced for peace of mind, especially seeing i can get it done cheaply through a mate. When i get up to building the motor i might have to buy two and make one from two. This may mean i can get a good set of pistons + rods in it. Thanks again for your help and patience, :lol: Dougal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 :'( So much theoretical gobledegook. Anyone would think that k motors were weak and complicated, when in fact they are the total opposite. Rad Rolla, do your self a favour and ask how long people have been successfully running their combos, and what motorsport they have actually done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogs Posted February 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 :'( So much theoretical gobledegook. Anyone would think that k motors were weak and complicated, when in fact they are the total opposite. Rad Rolla, do your self a favour and ask how long people have been successfully running their combos, and what motorsport they have actually done. Alright, How long have you guys been running your engine combos for, and what has it been used in ? (street ? racing?) I am just trying to find out how best to do it all, and what is involved in building a reliable motor. Obviously people are going to have conflicting veiws and so i have to weigh up all options, and the pros and cons of each. I figure that if i do the research before i actually get started i can avoid stupid mistakes and build a reliable motor that will suit my purpose. Sometimes i may seem to ask stupid questions, but please bear with me. I am trying to learn about these cars and working on them and this is one of the few resources available to young guy like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy-Yoda[RL] Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) I had a KE70 daily thrasher/paddock thrasher *see avatar* with an unmodified (and unloved) 4K in it, in three years I changed the oil twice, refilled the radiator once (put a small hole in the rad. with a tree [never repaired]) the car spent 9 months of it's life actually being driven on the road, the remaining 25 odd months of it's life were spent on dirt and gravel valve bouncing.......... NB.. I took the car for a burn once a week, sometimes once a fortnight (work allowing) and from the moment it fired, it wouldn't go under 3500, usually for hours on end, it took it all and came back for more every time. End result, in my opinion K motors is right tough........ The diff was about to cack it by the time I forced the engine to die, but never got a chance......... Edited February 17, 2008 by Toy-Yoda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogs Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) I had a KE70 daily thrasher/paddock thrasher *see avatar* with an unmodified (and unloved) 4K in it, in three years I changed the oil twice, refilled the radiator once (put a small hole in the rad. with a tree [never repaired]) the car spent 9 months of it's life actually being driven on the road, the remaining 25 odd months of it's life were spent on dirt and gravel valve bouncing.......... NB.. I took the car for a burn once a week, sometimes once a fortnight (work allowing) and from the moment it fired, it wouldn't go under 3500, usually for hours on end, it took it all and came back for more every time. End result, in my opinion K motors is right tough........ The diff was about to cack it by the time I forced the engine to die, but never got a chance......... I have heard this from a number of people and do not doubt their strength :'( I asked in a thread a while ago how the bottom end holds up and everyone said they were bulletproof. Link to thread I also asked the engine builder who will be doing my head and he said the same thing. (i do not doubt their strength at all) I understand that they are a simple, tough and fairly well designed engine. I just want to get my head around what others are doing, and now what i may have to do in the way of lifters. For quite a while i was going to build a 4k, until Pete Robinson (early corolla dealer and mechanic) suggested that a 5k will be best. So this is why i am looking at a 5k. Although it will all depend on what i can find. Edited February 17, 2008 by Rad Rolla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerondownunder88 Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Hi, Well my history is. Daily known its history since new. Has 498,000KM on speedo now and original 3K never been rebuilt or touched. Gets driven hard some days easy the others still going strong oil I check once a month and water well I drove it for 20min once no water in it. Put water in fixed leak no problems so water meh don't worry. 5K I once had in a car was rebuilt. The pin in the cam shaft snapped off and advanced the cam 5 degrees. Couldn't work out why car ran like crab before 2000RPM and then after 3000RPM. Drove it for a month like that. Mind you between 2 and 3 grand went harder than a V8..LOL And this problem made the cam rip the bottoms off all my hydraulic lifters and bent 2 push rods and made one compress so it was shorter. AND IT STILL RAN. So there a frigging tough motor. A KE70 I once had blew gear box blew diff valve bounce DAILY thrashed non stop on weekend and 4K still went. so again TOUGH. As for lifters I would simply go solid as cheaper, lighter etc. BUT depending on what cylinder head you use is what setup o lifters you want. Do you know what cylinder head you want to use on a 5K yet? If you do we can help. I know of 3 ways to do a solid lifter swap on a 5K for all heads and it is fairly easy. Also Ring Toyota. I can't confirm this my self but I was once told by a reliable source for 1 hydraulic lifter new for a 5K from Toyota is $70. Now I can't confirm this I have never priced them my self. BUT if that is the case 3F solid lifters are $11 each so do the maths solids will be cheaper..lol Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coln72 Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) Ran motorkhanas, khanacrosses & autocrosses for over ten years. Ran the 5k, cost $100 from the local paper :'( for six or so of those. All theat was done internally was the cam and a set of shells. This isn't the best video but this is it in action . This test was really to tight to let it have its head. Others that day would see the shift light on constantly, set at 7500rpm. I would baffle the sump if you are going to operate on bitumen as the g forces generated would be much higher than I would generate on dirt. Maybe just install a huge oil light and see how it goes. If you have an issue, then you could do your sump or see what people running Corolla's in hillclimbs have done. Cost wasn't an issue for me Cameron, as I had no money to throw away, I just reused everything that I had unless it was stuffed :lol:. If it was, I then looked at what was in the shed or the old mans workshop and used what I could. That id why my KE20 was running a KE30 radiator, truck exhaust tubing, ke35 front brakes converted back to ke20 pattern etc........ I may be seem like I'm talking myself up, but I know a number of people who went down the track of doing this or that cause it was the done thing and they have ended up not going any quicker than me. I think this was down to weight as my KE20 had undergone a serious diet. Edited February 17, 2008 by coln72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogs Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Thanks guys it is good to find out a bit more. coln72, looks like fun in a motokhana ! :'( I Have been to a few with my mate and i think i might give it a go sometime ! Thanks again cameron, i think i will run a 5k head (seeing it will already be on it). What do you reckon ? At this stage i would say it will be what i will use, unless i end up with a 4k engine. What about a 4k head on the 5k (with a shave job to up the compression) would that be any better? Let me know which is best/easyest to convert to solids with. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coln72 Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 On a previous 5k, a shved 5k head made a decent improvement. Instead of 4th gear going up a couple of local hills I could use 5th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerondownunder88 Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 HAHA I don't have any money to throw at corollas either but I do what I can I just collect parts measure weigh them and work out the BEST ones to use then take them to work make them better then I'm done. You can make a good combo with factory items. As for head. If your running NA I would shave it. I run 200PSI in my 5K man it does make a NICE difference. In a factory 5K engine manual I have some variants of it factory had 150PSI so a good shave and you will feel the difference :P And it is cheap to do. If you use a 4K head on a dished piston motor will drop compression REALLY LOW. If you run stock 5K dished pistons you need a 5K head. TO run solids on a 5K head you will need. 3F solids, 4k dished piston push rods (or ground down 4K-C ones), If you use the ground down 4K-C ones you need modified rocker gear as well. I have pics of this as that is what I run in my 5K in the ke15. SO far no push rods have popped off right up to 7 grand :) Ill get pics hard to explain the actually grinding BUT. Easy to do all you need is a bench grinder and safety glasses. Then yeah it will all fit. I didn't use my rare set of 4K-U push rods as if I bent one there HARD as HELL to find again. So I worked out a way to make 4K-C ones fit as a set of them isn't hard to find..LOL Cheers Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwarf Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Hiho, my background is pretty much if you can do it in club motorsport, I've done it in a Corolla. (Although success seems to be an option not included in my cars.) In 17 years, I've never baffled a sump, and have yet to find the need to. Get a 3/4/5K, put it in. Start giggling. Here's a suggestion. start stockish, and do things one at a time. It is THE best way to learn about things; how well (if at all) various mods work, how worth while each are, how to do things cheaply on a budget etc. That's what we did with the V1.0 KE25 of mine as I had little money as an apprentice. We (Dad and I) just did stuff to improve the car as finances dictated. You don't have to do everything in one big hit. :P Cheers R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coln72 Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 (edited) Hiho, my background is pretty much if you can do it in club motorsport, I've done it in a Corolla. (Although success seems to be an option not included in my cars.) In 17 years, I've never baffled a sump, and have yet to find the need to. Get a 3/4/5K, put it in. Start giggling. Here's a suggestion. start stockish, and do things one at a time. It is THE best way to learn about things; how well (if at all) various mods work, how worth while each are, how to do things cheaply on a budget etc. That's what we did with the V1.0 KE25 of mine as I had little money as an apprentice. We (Dad and I) just did stuff to improve the car as finances dictated. You don't have to do everything in one big hit. :yes: Cheers R And was still quick as. Enough to make me look silly on most, sorry, all occasions :P We had a party when Rob went north :) Edited February 17, 2008 by coln72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogs Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Thanks guys, will keep it in mind. I think i will do the engine gradually, (both due to my cashflow and doing year 12 this year). Sounds like a 5k head will be fine..........................sweet as :P Its good to have a few people who have experience with k motors giving me advice , thanks guys ! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollaboy2608 Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 I have a carbied 7K in my rolla, great starting point, because you already have 1.8L of capacity to play with. Its been proven over many many years that capacity is the easiest way to gain power without forced induction. It also makes the vehicle far more driveable, as you don't need to wring the neck of the motor to get power from it. My car is extremely torquey and blows a standard 3K out of the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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