Gecko71 Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 (edited) G'Day all, I have a bit of an issue. I currently own a AE71 with a 4A-C motor in it, I am a P-Plater, and i'm unsure if it is legal for me to put a 4A-GE (103kW) in an AE71. I'm asking if anyone knows for sure, whether it is legal or not for me to install a 4A-GE in my AE71 (i.e. P-PLater Friendly). Also, does anyone know if a P-Plater can drive a car with mod plates? It would be greatly Appreciated. Gecko71. Edited March 8, 2009 by Gecko71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam-__- Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 (edited) You need a modplate (I think that's what they call it up there) for the 4AGE being in the AE71 or AE86 if you've got one of them. Therefore it's illegal when you're on your Ps. Getting caught for it is another story.. Both blocks have similar engine numbers (both starting with 4Axxx). It'll depend on the cop who pulls you up. Edited March 8, 2009 by adam-__- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aecorolla Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 G'Day all, I have a bit of an issue. I currently own a AE71 with a 4A-C motor in it, I am a P-Plater, and i'm unsure if it is legal for me to put a 4A-GE (103kW) in an AE71. I'm asking if anyone knows for sure, whether it is legal or not for me to install a 4A-GE in my AE71 (i.e. P-PLater Friendly). It would be greatly Appreciated. Gecko71. Nope, no engine conversions are allowed on P plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trav_555 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 whenever i look into this i don't see why in nsw at least, as it says any engine that is no bigger than 15% in capacity of the largest engine fitted from factory in the car now an ae71 comes with a 4a -> 1.6 litre, thats way less thna 15% AND it uses stock mounts so i believe that IF you used STOCK everything off the engine including all manifolds and emmisions stuff (you would have to get it off jdm so that could be the problem) but still stock everything i reckon you could definately get away with just a change of engine number certificate thingo but don't hold me to it but thats what ive found Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 in a sense all you are changing is the cylinder head, manifolds and injection. however you should check it out with the RTA equivalent as you don't want to be bent over in a worst case scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julzy Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 If the car didnt come fitted from factory with that engine, its NOT LEGAL. But getting caught is a different story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwarf Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 His Dad would have his left nut if he drove something illegally. Queensland Transport would be your best port of call for this one. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko71 Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 His Dad would have his left nut if he drove something illegally. Queensland Transport would be your best port of call for this one. R It's not the answer he wants, Rob. Issue is that P platers cannot drive a car with plated engine modifications. The 4A series of engines are 1600cc, and the 4AG head is a straight bolt on but....... the change of the induction/fuel system from the original (carby to EFI) would require plating. That would therefore not be acceptable. The alternative would be to fit the 4AG head with twin 40/45 Webbers (which would end up being more powerful than with the EFI anyway). The carbs & manifolds would cost more that your left nut. Qld transport need a reality check... but don't start me (and everyone else on Rolla club) on the engine modification debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwarf Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) My left nut is currently not in use. I would gladly donate it for your carbie/ manifold appeal. :D Sorry guys, I can never work out which one of you I'm talking to.... :cool: At the end of the day though, QT (pineapple st) or State Traffic (Boondall) should (yeah I know, should) be able to give you a definitive answer. And hopefully in writing. It is in itself a difficult question. I would have thought that the issue would also have been different number of camshafts/ valves (per the CAMS argument for non inclusion as an alternate engine for PRC). I think where you ultimately come unstuck is the fact that that particular derivative of engine never came out in a 70 shell, whereas you could argue the point in an 86. If you get nowhere, I have a contact in Traffic branch I can hit up to get a better direction for a firm answer. Mr KCF should be able to point you in the direction of someone who knows as well. R Edited March 9, 2009 by Redwarf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrot Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) I have been banging on about 4AGE conversions and engineering for a while on two other Toyota related forums. Below is a synopsis of the situation IN VICTORIA which I have previously posted elsewhere. I can't believe the legal situation would be any different in QLD, but as always, the only way to be sure is to have a ruling from your state registration authority in writing. Although this reflects the situation in Victoria, i would be surprised if the situation was much different in other states. After seeing the same question a thousand times, I wrote to Vicroads explaining my specific situation in detail, vis that I had installed a 16 valve bigport 4AGE into my ADM delivered AE86. Along with the engine change, I explained that I had also changed over essentially every other part of the car to that fitted in an overseas spec 4AGE engined car, suspension, brakes, fuel system, emissions etc etc. I explained that I had looked in detail through Vehicle Standards Information (VSI) 8, Guide to Modifications for Motor Vehicles, and been unable to find specific reference to installing an engine available in this vehicle overseas, although ADR's are much mentioned. To cut a long story short, the answer is YES, if you put a 4AGE of ANY TYPE into an AE86 it requires an engineers certificate to be road legal in Victoria. Obviously this also applies to 2TG's into earlier Corolla's and Celica's, 18RG's etc etc? And of course 4AGE's into xE70/71's and no doubt lots of other Toyota models I know nothing about. The letter from Vicroads is attached and self explanatory. The highlighting was done by me. Whilst looking through the vicroads website for something else last week, I also found this which essentially says the same thing. "Notifying VicRoads of changes and modifications to vehicles Change of Engine 1. Replacement engine is identical to the original engine, or is an option allowed by the manufacturer for the same model vehicle The optional engine must be offered in Australia by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle (or certified variants). The change of engine may be recorded by VicRoads provided that the registered operator or a motor mechanic, or dealer in that make of vehicle or an Automotive Engineer signs a declaration certifying the engine is optional for the vehicle model, and that all modifications made by the manufacturer for the same vehicle model with that optional engine, have been completed." 2. Replacement engine is not of a type offered by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle or where alterations, or changes to the vehicle's frame or structure are made, and/or specially fabricated supports or structures are used You will need to attend a VicRoads Customer Service Centre for an inspection of the vehicle to confirm the new engine details. You will also need to complete a Change of Vehicle Description form [PDF 24kb] and provide VicRoads with: * a VASS Approval Certificate from a VicRoads Vehicle Assessment Signatory * an original receipt for the purchase of the engine as proof of ownership of the engine The only way around this is if someone is able to get documentary proof that Toyota did actually bring in a quantity of 4AGE engined AE86's at some stage as often rumoured though never categorically proven. I for one will be getting my car engineered. What you do is up to you. Edited March 13, 2009 by parrot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbr11k Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 an angle grinder, some silver spray paint and some letter/number punches are your friend.. but really. don't get caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrot Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 an angle grinder, some silver spray paint and some letter/number punches are your friend.. but really. don't get caught. Obviously a stupid answer except it was clearly tongue in cheek. Whatever you do, be completely clear that YOU are responsible for whatever you decide. 'Ignorance' is no excuse and you will be completely screwed over by registration authorities, and possibly far worse by the insurance companies if things go bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko71 Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 an angle grinder, some silver spray paint and some letter/number punches are your friend.. but really. don't get caught. Mate, with all due respect, i'm trying to do this the legal way. If i didnt care, then i would of gone ahead and done it already and wouldn't have made this post. The purpose of this post is to find out if it is LEGAL for me to do it, not if i can get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harun Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Nope, no engine conversions are allowed on P plates. And hence your question has been answered... The only legal way is no way at all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko71 Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 And hence your question has been answered...The only legal way is no way at all.... You'd think so, but it goes into more deatil. I've already done an engine conversion (from 3K to 4A) which was perfectly legal, so it is legal for P-Platers to do engine conversions, i just want to know specifically if i can go from 4A-C to 4A-G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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