Corolla Racing Series For Queensland

[trav_555]

mmm people would proberably get bored with just k series engines though don't you think?

 

such a pity it would be so cool

[TE278U]

have a look on u-tube for the starlet cup series in japan.

 

screaming k motors in starlets with massive massive flares.

 

a good watch :)

[bLinded_]

I'd love to see a K series setup. Sure they might not be as fast as other engines, but for the price and simpleness of them, they would be more than enough to have fun in and be a good choice of engine for a class for people wanting to race for fun. And with minor mods, they still are reasonably quick in small cars. I've seen some videos on The Tube from some Starlet cup in Japan, and seriously, I'd love to be racing in a class like that. I am doubtful that it would succeed, but should it do, and there are a good number of entrants, it would make for some really interesting racing. Just because it isn't as fast as higher capacity classes, doesn't mean drivers would get bored. Boredom would come from lack of competitors and tracks more so than engine choice. Some nice even matched racing would be awesome to be a part of. And a track full of screaming K's would be a nice sight/sound :)

[LittleRedSpirit]

Starlets are small enough to be exciting with K motors. Scale up the platform, scale up the motor if you ask me.

 

There is a real cult now with probably a couple of thousand 4age ke70 chassis cars being built or already on the roads in Australia. This number is increasing very fast too, for obvious reasons.

 

I can see perhaps a Corolla Series taking off. I do not know if it would integrate properly with the Gemini series unless it was just to boost numbers and to not necessarily race specifically comparable vehicles.

 

Id love to participate. I have thought about this at length, there are a few obstacles.

 

If you were to have a Corolla series, you could allow A and K classes. That way you all can race together like other production races, and be classed by motor. Id happily pit my A powered AE71 against any other A powered Corolla, fwd or rwd given the chance.

 

A set of simple design rules would be needed of course.

 

Id think motors should be stock internals, stock gearboxes, even stock diffs or T series at the biggest.

 

Brakes free, ECU, free, and a maximum rim diameter and width of say 15x7, and 195/50 street tyres for parity and low cost.

 

 

Id love to see it happen, keep us posted, mr O.P. and we can see how it pans out.

Edited March 29, 2009 by LittleRedSpirit

[Redwarf]

I love enthusiasm, I encourage it, but take it from someone with 20 years motorsport competitive (in Corolla's) and admin experience, it won't work.

 

Gemini's have been a great series in both track and rally, but their time is approching rapidly. This year was the last year for the Gemi's in Qld rallying, and I'd say their track life would counted in a handful of years.

 

IF you plan to run a series based the Corolla, you need to look at what made the Gemi's so popular. Ease of purchase, ease of parts, cost of parts, ability to buy $500 car, cage it, race it. The more restrictions you put on a class, the harder it is for first timers to enter. ie: 4AG + T50, not readily available for RWD without paying 2 x value of car, not OEM fitment meaning mods to fit to car, plus uprate diff etc..... First timers will be your core market, and you need to make it as simple as possible for them to enter.

 

What are you going to offer sponsers? In these times sponsers want value for money and exposure. You have to ask who outside a very (relatively) small community nobody will give a rats.

 

Excels are replacing Gemi's in the rally world as we speak. Cheap, modern cars, reasonably robust and a car people can relate to. If you want money, you need to go modern.

 

In all honesty, watching Corolla's at Willowbank would send me to sleep. Watching Corolla's at Lakeside would only be good for the carnage. They're handy at Morgan park, but like any track work, kW's are your friend. And if you don't keep a lid on mods, they with the biggest cheque book will win.

 

Which will be the case in the long run anyway.

[clayton racing]

It seems that there are good arguments, both for and against.

 

The age of the Gemini's is against them and any Corolla Series would be vunerable to the same fate. To over develope them with massive conversions with late model engines and drivetrains would indeed be the death of such a series before it began.

 

I know and agree that many a grand plan to create new catergories has failed because of over complicated rules, mods and budgets. Which is why the concept of the Gemini's worked for so long. They became a sub class of an existing catergory, they stayed as close to the factory car as posible only making small, simple and cheap mods to enhance the cars basic performance. Which is what any Corolla class would need to do if it were to begin and survive at all.

 

So for those out there who would like to continue with this experiment i would like to propose this.

 

A RWD 'K' class and a FWD 'A' class to run and compete together.

 

The 'K' class to be any RWD KE?? Shell with a 5K engine and K50 gearbox. To boost the engine, a racing spec control Cam shaft, Extractors and exhaust to suit, bigger carby jets, a decent airpod to replace the original housing and a thermo fan for the radiator to reduce engine load. But the rest of the running gear to remain at factory specs.

 

The 'A' class to be any FWD AE?? Shell with the 4A-C SOHC engine and it's factory 5 speed manual gearbox. To stay in touch with the KE?? RWD's the Cam shaft would stay at factory specs, carby jets can be changed and an improved air filter element to fit the factory housing. But the rest of the running gear to remain at factory specs.

 

Both classes would run in the CAMS 3J - improved production catergory requiring both classes to conform to those regulations. With a minimum weight of 950kg's for both classes.

 

Both Classes to run a factory sized 14" rim with the same control tyre. Brakes and material to be free as long a you can fit it in the 14" rim. Suspension type and mountings to stay as per factory but spring heights and rates are free (i am trying to develop an adjustable coil over kit for McPherson struts that could be fitted to all standard struts). shock absorbers to be as per factory layout and mountings but must be of a control brand and spec (eg. Monroe GT or similar).

 

The Bodies, outside and in, to remain standard with only the allowed removals and changes as per the 'Improved Productions Regulations'.

 

The benifit in staying as close to factory spec as possible is so what ever your budget is, you can race competitively without racing the size of someone elses wallet, overall its affodable to more willing competitors reducing the need of sponsors and the racing is closer.

 

Sticking to a narrow format also supports the Classes as a whole. if you have open slather rules you may as well not have them and there are plenty of existing catergories already that allow a much broader spectrum of mods and budgets.

 

So for the Rolla fans out there who would like to continue this discussion with a view to a competative budget friendly format of door to door Corolla racing, please share your thoughts?

Edited March 29, 2009 by clayton racing

[Redwarf]

The age of the Gemini's is against them and any Corolla Series would be vunerable to the same fate. To over develope them with massive conversions with late model engines and drivetrains would indeed be the death of such a series before it began.

 

It will still be governed by the size of peoples wallets.

 

I know and agree that many a grand plan to create new catergories has failed because of over complicated rules, mods and budgets. Which is why the concept of the Gemini's worked for so long. They became a sub class of an existing catergory, they stayed as close to the factory car as posible only making small, simple and cheap mods to enhance the cars basic performance. Which is what any Corolla class would need to do if it were to begin and survive at all.

 

Noted. However, if you want a front running Gemi, you need to be "creative". If I applied what I know as fact about various Gemi's to building a Corolla, nobody would get near me.

 

So for those out there who would like to continue with this experiment i would like to propose this.

 

A RWD 'K' class and a FWD 'A' class to run and compete together.

 

The 'K' class to be any RWD KE?? Shell with a 5K engine and K50 gearbox. To boost the engine, a racing spec control Cam shaft, Extractors and exhaust to suit, bigger carby jets, a decent airpod to replace the original housing and a thermo fan for the radiator to reduce engine load. But the rest of the running gear to remain at factory specs.

 

5K was never OEM fitment to a Corolla in this country. Therefore you have already gone contrary to your above statement.

The 'A' class to be any FWD AE?? Shell with the 4A-C SOHC engine and it's factory 5 speed manual gearbox. To stay in touch with the KE?? RWD's the Cam shaft would stay at factory specs, carby jets can be changed and an improved air filter element to fit the factory housing. But the rest of the running gear to remain at factory specs.

 

And you're going to control this precisely how?

 

Both classes would run in the CAMS 3J - improved production catergory requiring both classes to comform to those regulations.

right-o.

 

Both Classes to run a factory sized 14" rim with the same control tyre. Brakes and material to be free as long a you can fit it in the 14" rim. Suspension type and mountings to stay as per factory but spring heights and rates are free (i am trying to develop an adjustable coil over kit for McPherson struts that could be fitted to all standard struts). shock absorbers to be as per factory layout and mountings but must be of a control brand and spec (eg. Monroe GT or similar).

 

RWD Corollas never had 14" rims as standard. Brakes should NOT be free. (Please sir may I have some Brembos? I know at least one person in here with some...). Monroe GT's are about as useful as a scuba tank made of cheese for racing purposes. Bilstein, Koni as a bare minimum. How are you going to make sure they comply to your spec?

 

 

The benifit in staying as close to factory spec as possible is so what ever your budget is, you can race competitively without racing the size of someone elses wallet, overall its affodable to more willing competitors reducing the need of sponsors and the racing is closer.

 

Been there, done that. Bought the t-shirt. It doesn't happen. If you say open diffs only, I can build one that works like a LSD, but when you jack it up to check, will behave like an open. I know engine mods you will never find. A $3000 close tolerance rebuild will piss-ball a ring and bearing hone the bore rebuild. I can lighten cars in places you've probably never dreamed of. It's a simple fact that people cheat and can and do throw vast amounts of money at things to get advantages. It's why I haven't played on tarmac for ages. Another fact is if you don't have the required talent, nothing is ever going to make you fast.

 

To think that you can run without any sponser of worth is wrong. You need their money. You have to be able to bring money and support to the events. How/ where would you run the events? Licencing? I know what my CAMS licence is worth and it's not pretty. Can you give a breakdown of the cost of building a car? Off the top of my head I can also think of the cost of racesuit, helmet, seat, belts, cage ($$$), car logbook, inspection fee. What will the entry fees be? Who's insurance and what liability cover will it be?

 

The questions are endless.

 

as I said earlier. I admire you enthusiasm, but I've seen it all before.

[Trev]

It's hard to compete with a car (Gemini) that came out with a 1600cc, 1800cc & is easily upgraded to a 2000cc without knowing when you have a 1200cc or 1300cc corolla, Id say that you are pushing it with a 4ac.

Edited March 29, 2009 by Trev

[Timaay]

I vote NO RWD KE CARS. FWD Hatches only.

 

You really want KE's to get even rarer then they are now!!

 

The Gemini's ate all the stock ones up! (except for the tabouli ones)

The Kingswood series ate all the kingswoods up!

 

 

Farout.

 

NO NO NO :party:

[trav_555]

theres heaps of rwd corollas around, even in my town i see one other than one i own/live near/owned by someone close to me everyday, and there usually a different one everyday

 

in fact i tihnk the ones that go in theis series we would produce more better condition ke's than the rust heaps you find around town and at the wreckers usually

 

i reckon a fwd 4age series and a rwd 4k series

 

Travis

[MRMOPARMAN]

talk to some gemini racers.. the series hasnt been going on that long.. and some parts are getting really hard to get. which then drives the value of said parts up etc etc.

 

the same thing will happen to corollas. especially when their values are starting to increase and parts are getting harder to get WITHOUT a rally series.

 

what youd wanna start with is an AE82/92 class. preferably excluding 4age engines. no one cares if you cull 90% of ae82 production. cars are cheap as chips to get (my last one cost $150, the one before was free). theres a multitude of stuff you can do to them to make em quick. thats the go.

[MRMOPARMAN]

or maybe an S13/R32 one make class?

[kingsparticus]

Ok how about considering how Targa rally rules go, use different classes, for fwd or rwd, for CC output and the likes, in general saying 86s can't enter is way to biased, why can't AE92s enter, or AE101s? u just group them in a different class, mind u if their engine output isnt much different then whats the problem??? I'm racing an AE94 in Targa rallys and I'm in a 1982-2002 year range, and my setup puts me in a 2500-3500cc class, so every porsche turbo and GTR skyline i have to race against!!! Tell me thats fair...but! It was me who chose to drive a Corolla, being smart about my build means I'm not that bad off to be honest :yes: Same goes for this "Corolla series"

[Mason.]

i would defs race. if i didnt have to spend 5000 on a 4a.... lol k series FTW!