xy500 Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 don't even bother shortening a falcon diff, waste of money. They barely handle na sixes, let alone a turbo six. I'd use a hilux diff or similar shortened. Much stronger and better lsd too. You'll need to have a custom tailshaft made either way... and whats with the plans? first thing on the list is a polished intercooler? you may need to take your hand off it before you begin this build... :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLW42 Posted April 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 don't even bother shortening a falcon diff, waste of money. They barely handle na sixes, let alone a turbo six. I'd use a hilux diff or similar shortened. Much stronger and better lsd too. You'll need to have a custom tailshaft made either way... and whats with the plans? first thing on the list is a polished intercooler? you may need to take your hand off it before you begin this build... :) Ok 1st off, i have like 3 falcon diffs to use, and i'm pretty sure there are a shit load of boosted falcons still with the stock diffs(maybe el diffs if it's a boxcar), look at the ed xr6t thread in non toyota rides he's still using the stock ed diff and it handles it fine(and if i'm not mistaken i think the rajab boys el drag car still uses a falcon diff with upgraded shit through it), the only things that break in falcon diffs are the axle's, and lsd's are a waste of time IMHO i would much prefer a mini spool/ 4wd systems lokka, hilux diffs are strong yes don't get me wrong but when you have 3 diffs laying around in the shed makes more sence to use them, and i've never had a diff break on me Tailshaft has to be custom i know :) Ok the reason why it starts with a polished cooler is because if you didn't notice it started at the front of the car and went backwards through it, i hope you understand now why it is the way that it is :D Phil if you wanna do it we'll use my 70 and get into it :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke70dave Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 c'mon SLW.....your list is rediculous. agree with xy500. polished intercooler? what the? how about finshing one of your current cars? and making a succes of one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stable20 Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 i sayyy .... theres better 6 cyls out there then a ford 6, even if it is cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bLinded_ Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Agree with above... Also, there is a reason why most straight six corollas are either 1JZ or 1G powered as opposed to a ford six. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleRedSpirit Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 (edited) Agreed. 1jzgte/ggte 2jzgte rb25/26/det bmw even, some nice straight 6s there, and slanted which might lower your Cog. Also, the building of a Ford 6 to take boost would be required, Id be looking at something which was already rwd and has its own integrated turbo setup from the factory. Imagine what the turbos to boost a 4 litre might cost to buy... (to4z $2000 new) A lot more than the 300 dollars the motor costs, its not a great direction to attack from. If its important to save money by starting with a 300 dollar driveline, how are you going to spend $10000 to do the car nicely? Maybe if you were in a seriously remote area and had to make do with what you can find or at least get easily, but in Brisbane, look around, there are lighter, more powerful motors with more rpm available and more scintilating performance, especially when transplanted in a rolla. It does seem that your priorities are a bit odd with such specific visual details in your plans list, but not a lot of nitty gritty tech info or research. List what each costs, realistically, and then reasses whether its worth starting it at all with a Ford motor, considering the rebuild it will need, the cost of the turbo, most likely manifolds in and out to accommodate the smaller than Falcon bay, piping, fabrication, tuning, wiring, an ecu to tune it with, the clutch you list is a grand aswell, Does a T5 really handle the kind of power and torque a turbo 4 litre would make? I thought they were about a rough equal to a w55/7/8? You might as well go full cage if you want to live after any kind of accident, it would be seriously powerful and taily to drive, The diff would be close to a grand to shorten alone, then the cost of the locker and the work to build it. To get your falcon 5 stud you can use a hopper stoppers kit and then get au calipers, but thats 1500 dollars and you still need to sort the master cylinder, Id assume you would use a falcon one with a shorten falcon diff and au calipers, but still theres some more work and fabrication. A lot of these birds could be flattened with just a few stones if you put more planning into it. Edited April 17, 2011 by LittleRedSpirit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xy500 Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Ok 1st off, i have like 3 falcon diffs to use, and i'm pretty sure there are a shit load of boosted falcons still with the stock diffs(maybe el diffs if it's a boxcar), look at the ed xr6t thread in non toyota rides he's still using the stock ed diff and it handles it fine(and if i'm not mistaken i think the rajab boys el drag car still uses a falcon diff with upgraded shit through it), the only things that break in falcon diffs are the axle's, and lsd's are a waste of time IMHO i would much prefer a mini spool/ 4wd systems lokka, hilux diffs are strong yes don't get me wrong but when you have 3 diffs laying around in the shed makes more sence to use them, and i've never had a diff break on me well you you probably haven't had a proper lsd yet, done right they are the perfect mix between driveability and tractability. The only ford turbo 6 setups (particularly e series) that use stock diffs are very low boost setups, because they are one of the weakest diffs around; they only have 28 spline axles, some only 25 FFS! To upgrade a bw diff usually involves new carrier/spool and axles. It will cost you a lot more money to have work done on a ford bw salisbury style diff than on a banjo style diff. You could go and buy yourself a good condition second hand hilux diff. have done to it what you will and you will still be ahead on funds than having a ford bw modified. Believe me i've done the math and they aren't worth it. also agree with other posters, there are a lot better sixes kickin around than an e series ohc 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love ke70 Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 amen to the proper lsd, just had mine built, 200 foot pound to get it to slip, so will corner nicely, but otherwise it may aswell be locked, theres a reason they are best of both worlds... and theres been so many of these style of threads, it just depends what your gonna do with it... depends how much its gonna cost and how well its gonna be done. if you want the 4l, id be going 1uz... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLW42 Posted April 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 I do agree with every one of you and what you are all saying, But i want to be different and original and as far as i'm aware nobody has used a 4L in a corolla, fair enough they may be shithouse motors as everyone is saying they are, and it may need a rebuild to get it to properly handle boost, but many people have succesfully boosted them on stock bottom ends and have had them last quite awhile, but i have faith in them, some people may say why waste your time on it and others will say do it. I wouldn't run stupid amounts of boost through a stock motor thats for sure, but a stock 4L bottom end should easily handle say 6-12psi, for how long depends on how well it has been looked after, it's just like people who turbo n/a rb30's and just throw a turbo on the side I have been looking into the costs involved and it may be expensive but thats what happens when you want to be original and do something out of the box, nothing is set in stone at the moment, i am simply gathering feedback on it :D Dave it doesn't matter how long it takes any of my cars to get done, eventually they will be done, i know i have gone backwards about 50bazillion times and spent more money on 4 different motors for it but it's all experience in my eyes, This is simply feedback related and peoples opinions on it that is all, and i appreciate everyone throwing thier opinions out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleRedSpirit Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Kudos on receiving criticism well. Most people in your position would be sooky by now. There may well be a good reason why there are no ke70s around with this motor. Its not like the motor just came out, Ford has had a roughly 4 litre six inline since before I was born and I'm 30. Its not like the motor just came out, people have had time to think this through, and decided not to d it. Being original is fantastic but I would never invest that kind of money unless I knew I could get more value out of what I build, or at least keep it OTR. If you want to go silly with big motors in an old car, buy a ke20 (or a corolla that is at least 30 years old), rego as a hotrod, and cram a 289 or 351 in it. Drive on Sundays, at least you'd get out in the sunshine without the added expense of a personal airstrip or tow vehicle and trailer. Do you really have the kind of coin that can see you running a rig to tow a built performance car. I know some people who can, they own trucking companies, computer wholesalers and run large companies most times. I have support for ambition but its a fine line between ambition and overextending what you can actually achieve. The project you describe would need more resources than most could find, that's for sure Its expensive enough to run my moto, drive 3 hours into the bush, pay to ride, fuel, camping, food, then the cost of the bike in the first place and the vehicle to shift it, the rego on the 6 cylinder ute isn't cheap, the riding gear, then the maintenance on the bike, things wear out or you break them. Itd be a much more expensive and difficult proposition to get to the same point in a ke70 like you say. The chassis itself would need good reinforcing, a cage, tunnel and firewall mods, tubbing if you get serious, has to be 5 grand in preparing that. You could do it on the cheap but you be disappointed with the result I think, and youd make a death trap without good seats, harnesses, cage etc, and that motor would need to be secured really well! don't wnat that in your lap, since it will be poking into the occupant area quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke70dave Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Dave it doesn't matter how long it takes any of my cars to get done, eventually they will be done, i know i have gone backwards about 50bazillion times and spent more money on 4 different motors for it but it's all experience in my eyes, fare enough, but experience shouldnt involve wasting alot of cash. by the sounds of it, this is what you want: very rough estimates.. engine/gbox - allow $600. to4z- 2000new (i have a feeling this is the wrong choice anyway, given that they run these on 12a's, and they are alot smaller capacity than a 4L 6, check compressor maps) ecu to run it all reliably - 1500 + 1000 in tuning = not much change from 3000 (allowing for an o2 sensor) engine mounts (if you can't DIY) allow 700 diff shortening + modding = 1000 new tailshaft= 500 weld in cage - 3000 (properly done, they cost big bucks) sort suspension - allow 2000. sort brakes - allow another 1500 exhuast (including a custom manifold (S?)) with an external gate ) allow 800 + rest of exhuast = 1000 external gate (say tial) = 400 radiator of some sort - allow 200 maybe custom intercooler piping, + intercooler + polishing disc = 1000 (maybe more) fuel system to run all this = 600 now adding all that up you get - $17,500 adding 33% for the fact that an engine build always goes over budget = 23275 or $24k. now this does not take into account doing anything to the motor to get it to run boost, oil lines, cooling lines any of that jazz. prepared to spend ~20k on a conversion just because knowone has done it before? and then watch someone with a 4agte run rings around you because it doesnt weight 12ton at the front end? i sure wouldnt be!! getting experience is a good thing, wasting money and calling it experience...is not. now I'm sure you can get some of these items cheaper, howeever this is a worst case scenario but it will leave you with a GOOD car, that has been done properly. note: proper LSD>locker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickn5k Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 First off I'd use a au engine they are crank cradled and cross bolted main caps. Dude don't listen to anyone that hasn't played with a big boosted ford 6!!!!! Au engines are good for 350rwkw STD and yes it's been WELL proven. The guy doing my manifolds that works next door to work has a xe with a au engine big Garrett roller with LPG car makes 500+rwkw and has run low tens and high nines for the last 8yrs with the same ed xr6 borgy so they can't be too weak. Has similar setup in a mustang that made 600rwkw and off trailor ran 9.80 at mid 140mph!!! I say do it!!!!!! Ps a twin cam will be a mission to fit they are too tall even for a e series without a scoop/hump in the bonnet. That's my 2 cents. Stu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninja-philbo Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 yeah dude I'm keen, ive got an au ,,got the manifold, got the t04z, got the gate, have the twin o44s with surge tank, f@$k falcon diffs just get a 85 hilu diff and flair the guards there not much wider than stock i think its 40mms don't quote me on that. I'm a fab welder so the sheet metal works easy. I'm telling u now if u wanna do this u have to get at least two cylinders into the cabin so it wont be on the road ever again. yes boosted 4lts are cool ive had one and was about to do anouther hence all the stuff i already have. but if it was me id be goin 1ggte for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh what a nissan feeling! Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 yep, do eet, dodgy old falcon 6s have built quite a reputation for handling boost very well, would be one hell of a burnout car. 2jzeenoshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLW42 Posted April 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 First off I'd use a au engine they are crank cradled and cross bolted main caps. Dude don't listen to anyone that hasn't played with a big boosted ford 6!!!!! Au engines are good for 350rwkw STD and yes it's been WELL proven. The guy doing my manifolds that works next door to work has a xe with a au engine big Garrett roller with LPG car makes 500+rwkw and has run low tens and high nines for the last 8yrs with the same ed xr6 borgy so they can't be too weak. Has similar setup in a mustang that made 600rwkw and off trailor ran 9.80 at mid 140mph!!!I say do it!!!!!! Ps a twin cam will be a mission to fit they are too tall even for a e series without a scoop/hump in the bonnet. That's my 2 cents. Stu. Yeah I know everyone uses au motors but i'd just use the el motor cause it'd already be there, and it wouldn't be hard to swap later on, I know heaps of cars making easy 300rwhp, yeah the dohc would be even more work yeah dude I'm keen,ive got an au ,,got the manifold, got the t04z, got the gate, have the twin o44s with surge tank,f@$k falcon diffs just get a 85 hilu diff and flair the guards there not much wider than stock i think its 40mms don't quote me on that.I'm a fab welder so the sheet metal works easy.I'm telling u now if u wanna do this u have to get at least two cylinders into the cabin so it wont be on the road ever again.yes boosted 4lts are cool ive had one and was about to do anouther hence all the stuff i already have.but if it was me id be goin 1ggte for sure. Yeah so wanna get it happening then???? yep, do eet, dodgy old falcon 6s have built quite a reputation for handling boost very well, would be one hell of a burnout car.2jzeenoshit. That they have done :D Still a 2jzee no shit would be preferable but it's been done before where as a 4L hasn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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