Noobs

[phil86]

I am a newbie with a ke30 four and have done a lot of looking around etc at what best to do with the engine for some more up and go as a daily. I have dreamt of 13b turbo and 20v turbo etc etc etc the list can go on all day. As I have found it is better to start small and work my way up. I've seen there are also quite a lot of other newbies in similar situations, so I was thinking what if some of the more experienced guys can do up a thread with pointers on what is realistic for a newbie to do to get more power that way we don't have a million threads about me dreaming of a 13b in my rolla. Ie is it worth doing my stock 3k up or go straight to a 4k or 5k, what sort of mods does it require, approx cost doing most of the work yourself and what sort of power increase you can expect etc? I was thinking keep it carbie as this is easier for a newbie as no wiring etc?

[Sloth]

I don't think this is a terrible idea.

 

There is a lot of information out there and it can be a little bit of an overload. Even if you have an idea of what you want to do, sometimes it can be hard to find the specific details etc (I have had issues in the past using the search function on various forums and sometimes what a google search brings back is just a little too vague).

 

When I first got my 86 a couple of years ago I did a little searching around the interwebz and found a guide that someone had written for new 86 owners. It essentially went through the various components of the car (engine, suspension etc), some initial things you should take a look at (known issues etc) and some potential direction for changes (eg saying things like "it's best to mod/change this straight away, but don't worry about X until you have done an engine conversion").

 

With that in mind it might be worth making up a guide for new KE owners, putting in the answers or links to some of the common (and often stupid questions).

 

This could be as simple as something like:

 

Engine - The stock KE engine can be considered quite slow, this can be fine for a daily but most enthusiasts crave more power, here are some links to discussions about the common engine conversions:

• Leaving the engine stock (as discussion on why you shouldn't bother)
  
• Working the 4k
  
• 4K Turbo
  
• 5k Conversion
  
• 4AGE (1.6l) Conversion
  
• 13B (rotary) Conversion
  
• Holden V6 Conversion
  
• V12 Jet Engine conversion
  

 

 

There already exists the FAQ/Wiki containing information and links to working a 4k, but this could be daunting to newbies, so creating something targeted towards could help answer their questions quicker and more efficiently and mean less questions for more experienced forum members.

 

A lot of forums though often have people who can be slightly elitist and, while they are willing to provide their opinion experience etc, they are often unwilling to do so to the n00bs or anyone who has less experience/knowledge than them (which defeats the purpose). There seems to be this opinion that if you want the information you should really have to work hard and scour the internet for it. While I believe that we can't provide all the information inexperienced people will need (and they should also do their own research), we can (as a community) at least provide a decent starting point (so that people will be able to quickly determine that fitting a 5liter V8 engine into a KE35 isn't a simple bolt in job).

[KENut]

My opinion is that if you want to go fast do not build a K engine (unless its got a nice turbo on it ;) )

 

 

If you want to have fun though K engines are a really good place to start!

[phil86]

Yea I agree, but for some noobs we at least just want an improvement. Engine swaps and forced induction are not an option for most noobs as a lot are p platers, unless it's say a 3k to 5k in which case who will notice lol? Also alot of noobs don't have the skills/knowledge to do a conversion even a relatively "simple" one like a 4age. Correct me if I am wrong....

[Spencer[RL]]

4age in my books would be in in the meduim range as a engine conversion a lot of little things need to be modded and fitted.

 

I think the best starting point for anyone to learn how engine's work and how to put them back together is a good little K . Buy a K enigne for $50,slowly strip it and look at how everything moves and works, change bearings, gaskets , timing cheains , rings..then put it back together.

Best $50 bux you could of spent.

[phil86]

That's pretty much what I'm wanting to do...

[BUZ440]

Just work on your current motor and learn from there

 

IMO the easiest conversion would be a rotory engine into your KE

[altezzaclub]

Copy this first-

 

http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/page__p__445727__fromsearch__1#entry445727

[ke70dave]

i don't see what is wrong with not spoon feeding people.

 

if corollas are a true hobby and passion for a nooby, hours and hours of research should be enjoyable. i dare say everything to do with the common (and even not so common) modifications has been documented a billion times, weather it be build threads, tech articles or even previous tech questions.

 

before i even bought my ke70 i had spent months crawling through the net and had pretty much the whole thing planned out, even bought a few 4age conversion bits before buying the car as they came up cheap. it helped i was a poor uni student working 1 day a week and a $500 ke70 was a HUGE purchase at the time...so i had plenty of time to ponder:P

 

the idea is good though, having all the info in one spot, but i think its much better to spend hours diving through build threads, as you lean alot more than just reading a list of parts required. not to mention build threads usually have heaps of pics, so you get a feel for what you will be doing.

 

just my 0.2C anyway.

[irokin]

Dave makes some good points. It pretty much boils down to which is easier for a newbie? Taking 30 minutes to read an introductory guide someone has painstakingly put together or spending 30 seconds to cobble together a barely comprehensible post and waiting for the silver platter?

 

Also, who is going to put it together? Whenever this kind of thing comes up there seems to be this insinuation that the powers that be should be the ones responsible for putting others plans into action. If you want to suggest a course of action, I'm more than happy to provide whatever tools you might need to put your plan into action (within reason) but please don't just throw it out there and distance yourself from the actual implementation. I hope that doesn't read the wrong way, just some extra help putting valuable information together would be greatly appreciated.

[Sloth]

You both make very good points. I definitely understand that people need to at least have some mechanical understanding and should do research. One of the issues that I have seen though is that when researching something obscure all of the things that I find are just posts etc saying "use the search/google" or posts that say "this has already been answered, go here" (which then points to another post with someone just saying use the search/google). Part of this issue is that you end up with one post containing information and 19 posts with people who couldn't find that information asking where it is (and when you do a search you only have a 1/20 chance of actually finding the right information, with the odds decreasing as more people ask questions).

 

I don't have any answers as to who should build or maintain this, I guess it's similar to most other ideas that are suggested on the internet; someone else should do it!

 

Feel free to stop reading now, as I'm going to go on a slightly off topic rant.....

 

/startrant

 

As a Software Engineer and lover of design/abstraction, one of my beliefs is that a lot of the internet is misused (don't get me wrong, I love the internet). I think that forums, blogs, wikis etc generally end up doing a lot more than they were originally designed for and more than they can handle. In my mind forums (like rollaclub) are typically used for four different things, ideally there should be 4 different systems that are used to do this, but everybody likes integrating things. The four things I think forums are generally used for are:

• Discussion (which type of petrol do you run and why?)
  
• Asking/Answering Questions (will a AE86 diff fit in a KE70 with 4AGE/T50?)
  
• Displaying information or updates about something (build threads, results of club events)
  
• Posting random bits of information (spotted, new members, random pics of cars)
  

 

While forums can be used for these things I think that some of them are better suited to other sites/methods. I think the types of sites that you would ideally use for these interactions (respectively) are below:

• Forum (a flowing discussion, not always talking about a single point, involving multiple people, where historical information is important (good to see how things are derived), the comments/responses are important).
  
• Question site (eg Stack Overflow style, where there is a single question and single-ish answer, users should be able to easily identify what an answer is and see others comments on why that is valid/invalid, the ability to ignore answers that are wrong/irrelevant is beneficial)
  
• Blog (something where the main focus is the information posted up by the original poster and comments are secondary and can be ignored).
  
• Twitter, blog (something where you don't car too much about historical information).
  

 

I think that a lot of posts just ad lots of noise and very little information, eg; "Sweet car bro!". It's nice to get feedback but if you post up a build/conversion/discussion thread and 80% of the posts are someone saying "Sweet car bro!" the information can get lost.

 

That's just my general belief on the internet as a whole (not just or specifically rollaclub). If anyone wants to hear me rant about it more outside of this thread feel free to send me a PM.

 

/endrant

Edited September 22, 2011 by Sloth

[phil86]

I understand what you are saying and to a point I agree, I have been on here consistently for months and enjoy searching around. I agree people shouldn't be spoon fed but I also think things shouldn't be any harder than they need to be. I was also just trying to stop all the stupid posts about crazy engine swaps etc from noobs (quite a few I have been apart of unfortunately ).

[ke70dave]

lets attack this from another approach.

 

how about we test the theory, think up some common questions, and see if we can find the answers?

 

here is a few

 

13b into ke70

 

fist google search found this:

 

http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/51482-13b-rotary-in-ke70/

 

not all the answers, but a fair amount and a good starting point.

 

20V turbo, about the 5th link down:

 

http://www.driftworks.com/forum/technical/143373-anybody-here-running-4age-20v-turbo-engine.html

 

not all the info again, but some good info. which can be used for further search refining (ie 20V head onto 4agze block etc)

 

and of course the best thread about K engines is here. and almost all threads about 5k, will have someone comparing them to a 4k or a 3k.

 

http://www.rollaclub.com/faq/index.php?title=Tech:Engine/K_Series/How_to_build_a_tough_K_motor

 

now somethign outrageous, 1jz into ke70/ae71.

 

http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&th=63697&prevloaded=1&&rev=&reveal=&start=60&count=60

 

so the info is there.....people just have to look!

 

right ive wasted a good 10mins of my lunch break doing that:P

[BUZ440]

^^^^ the above should be stickied into one thread, pinned and locked, and any further info added into

[irokin]

I think that forums, blogs, wikis etc generally end up doing a lot more than they were originally designed for and more than they can handle.

 

While I would agree if your site was specific to those objectives individually, a site targeting the range of objectives you might just be better off with one system. If you introduce individual systems for each specific objective you suddenly have 4 different moderating systems, 4 different potential security risks, 4 different systems to maintain, attempt to retain a common look and feel and integrate some kind of central authentication system. Think of the poor sys admins!

 

Forums are fairly versatile, you can twist them around to be almost anything but I have seen some pretty shocking implementations (a forum turned into a shopping cart?).

 

I might be able to do something like the stack overflow style just through templates and post ratings. I'll have a look but it can be just as much of a pain to maintain, every time they do a minor release the forum templates (usually) change and you've gotta spend a few hours going through reimplementing everything.

 

 

Blog (something where the main focus is the information posted up by the original poster and comments are secondary and can be ignored).

 

I've been pondering this one for a while for the Rides area. Once I get the server move out of the way and upgrade to the next minor release I'll get the add on and see how it goes. Change is usually resisted, but I'll do my best to promote the move.