altezzaclub Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) OK, I own a 1999 Toyota Altezza with a 3S-GE Beams motor, had it since 2001 its done 120,000km and I changed the cam belt/idlers/water pump a couple of years back. It has never given a moments trouble. <--- a nice red one! My wife took the daughter back to Uni a few months ago, some 500km each way, and when she came back she parked the car in the driveway. I got in later to put it in the garage and it didn't instantly start, so I just rolled it down the drive and shut the door. It has never started since. She said it was running fine all day and gave no indication of something different. It cranks fast, with a smell of unburnt fuel and occasionally fires a cylinder. So new plugs went in and I started looking for failed sensors etc. I checked all the common ones, injectors, cam & crank position sensors, TPS, APS, coils (coil over plugs), temp sensor, VVTi solenoids and a few others. All I could read were resistances, and in no case were there any zeros, all sensors have full circuits. OBD1 is fitted, the engine check light flashes at a constant rate with no codes. Other lights (traction control light) have codes, but in theory shouldn't. So the computer knows something is wrong, but it doesn't know what. That's why I spent a couple of weeks on the electrics. A mate had a set of coils spare so I ran those against mine, same result. I took the tappet cover off & checked tappet clearances, inlets around 9thou, exhaust 11-12thou. We put a compression gauge over it.... 100, 100 30, 30psi.... oil didn't make a difference. So- Its trying to run on two 100psi cylinders, which is why it cranks fast and fires occasionally. Before I pull the head off, what suggestions are there of what could be wrong? *head gasket- only if it is burnt between 3 & 4, pumps air from one to the other without a whistling noise and doesn't affect oil or water, or give a backfire when cranking. ...and it somehow leaks out of 1 and 2. *rings- only if they suddenly collapsed badly enough to give 30psi cranking without a rattle or a knock. *valves- only if they are running stock tappet gaps. I've thought long and hard about a VVTi fault bending valves but I can't see how it can. I expect a bent valve to alter the tappet gap, but maybe they are suddenly burned to nothing... *blocked inlet manifold- only if 'something' got in there and anyway it still sucks hard if you put your hand over it. I'm going to buy a fitting for a leakdown test tomorrow, but really, unless there is some stunning explanation that means I don't have to take the head off, the leakdown test is a waste of time. Any of those reasons for collapsed compression means 'take the head off'... Any bright ideas? I would really really hate to spend a bundle of money, lots of time and aggravation, and run the risk of screwing something up only to find it wasn't under the head!! Edited October 19, 2011 by altezzaclub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan G Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) i would even back the valve adjustment right off and then check the compression. 30psi doesnt seam right at ALL! edit - if you look at 3 and 4 adjustment screws, are they further down than the adjusters? EDIT EDIT - give the valve a couple of taps with a hammer then check compression again. could be a peice of junk holding the valve open. don't do anything further untill you report back with your findings sell the beams to a ke70 owner and get a worked 4k in the altezza! :lol: Edited October 19, 2011 by Evan G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altezzaclub Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 sell the beams to a ke70 owner and get a worked 4k in the altezza! haha! Swap the motors between the blue car and the red car you mean! Cams run straight on top of mirror-finish 'top-hat' followers, not even any shims. Setting tappets means reading them, removing cams, selecting the right thickness top hat and reassembling ti... I'd hate to have to pay a Toyota technician to do it! You can see reflection under the marked lobe, and the way they cut the heel of the cams to half the lobe width. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trev Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Do a leak down test, fairly common for a 3s to blow the ass out of a head gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbr11k Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 i know shit all about motors but i'd like to know whats causing this, but my car is doing the same thing, i did compression leaks test etc but can't figure it out, buying a new head gasket and than i'll have a look under the head.. i might have to try tapping the the valves with a hammer and see if its what evan suggested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrInKryption Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I'd say either the rings or head gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan G Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 when my head was off, i took it to my machinist for him to check the valve seats. i poured kero down the valves and saw it become wet. he put a vac souce with a plug on the intake port and measure the Hg. all were about 5 hg(off the scale good) that there seats were fine. but number 2 exhaust valve was down at 2 hg. this is where i started stressing, he grabs the hammer and taps the valve and the vac shoots up to 5hg same as the other. was just a bit of carbon or metal swaft. THANK KCUF FOR THAT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh what a nissan feeling! Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Did you have the throttle wide open on compression test? Just checking :) 100 is even way too low for the other cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan G Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) wide open throttle during compression test? :blinks: never heard that one? do you trust this compression gauge? Edited October 20, 2011 by Evan G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh what a nissan feeling! Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 um, yep. :yes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altezzaclub Posted October 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) Wide open throttle is correct for compression testing. The Altezza won't do it as it is semi-fly-by-wire, and the throttle plate doesn't move when you push the pedal until halfway down. The full pedal is about 1/3 throttle plate open. Anyway, I wedged it wide open for the tests. We've just hooked a compressor up to the plug holes and put 100psi down the two 30psi cylinders, and it came out the exhaust pipe. So burnt exhaust valves, titanium, $150 each... and a complex head job strip! I must say Yamaha head castings are absolutely beautiful! Probably, it would start and run if we towed it, and drive at 100kph quite happily. The inertia of the airflow at 3000rpm would mean its just down on power but still running smoothly. I can't understand how it started fine i the morning in Armidale, but they're rooted by Orange. Bloody dud NSW petrol I reckon! Edited October 20, 2011 by altezzaclub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corolla_nut Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 just a thought - would something have made it run lean enough to burn exhaust valves on that trip? might be worth checking the o2 sensors out? probably just horrible petrol. Robert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrInKryption Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 What about timing? It could be the timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altezzaclub Posted October 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Both of those should be sorted by the ECU. Knock sensor for timing and O2 sensor before the cat. I suppose I could take the O2 sensors and the FMD out of the KE70 and fit them as a second opinion on the mixture! :laff: She would have gassed up somewhere in between Gunnedah-Coonabarabran, usually with Caltex 95. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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