tas_ae71 Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 (edited) slapper: i agree with you on almost every point you made. rollaboy have you even driven a ke or earlyer corolla...? i the only corollas i have are ke70, ae71 t-18 and sprinter. infact have you drievn a car before and after it has had a suspension upgrade? its more agile, grips better (if suspension is selected with this in mind) more controlable....... i can tell you now in standard form they suspension is far from safe. stiffer and lower suspension makes the car more stable, provides more grip and improves braking by distributing the weight more evenly. manufactors wouldnt make suspension so bad that it would casue instant death but they have comfot inmind more than safety. can you feel safety as you take a car for a test drive..? not particual but you can feel comfort. did you actualy read what i said? i said that you would only want to change the susy on a fazza if you where into some kind of serious motorsport and actually needed it. if i owned one i woulnt be touching the suspension becasue they have as you have confirmed, they have perfomance in mind not comfort Edited September 19, 2007 by tas_ae71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollaboy2608 Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 slapper: i agree with you on almost every point you made. rollaboy have you even driven a ke or earlyer corolla...? i the only corollas i have are ke70, ae71 t-18 and sprinter. infact have you drievn a car before and after it has had a suspension upgrade? its more agile, grips better (if suspension is selected with this in mind) more controlable....... i can tell you now in standard form they suspension is far from safe. stiffer and lower suspension makes the car more stable, provides more grip and improves braking by distributing the weight more evenly. manufactors wouldnt make suspension so bad that it would casue instant death but they have comfot inmind more than safety. can you feel safety as you take a car for a test drive..? not particual but you can feel comfort. did you actualy read what i said? i said that you would only want to change the susy on a fazza if you where into some kind of serious motorsport and actually needed it. if i owned one i woulnt be touching the suspension becasue they have as you have confirmed, they have perfomance in mind not comfort Without getting into a childish argument, I'm actually a mechanic by trade, and have worked in a well known Sydney performance workshop for some time. I do indeed own a KE30 rolla. Back in the 70's and 80's, I would agree with you that in most cases, cars had softer suspension setups. I disagree that cars are necessarily more controllable with stiff suspension. Many factors come into play with such a generalised statement. Factoring in Australia's shite road surfaces, controlability of a vehicle ultimately lies in the hands of the driver, modified suspension or not! At the end of the day, you can ask any mechanical engineer you want, and I guarantee you that they will say cutting springs is bad, which, if I remember correctly, was the original point of this discussion, not whether stiff suspension is better than soft suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sbox Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 (edited) Deleted Edited May 24, 2008 by Sbox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas_ae71 Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 (edited) rollaboy: being a machanic and doing some work at a perfomance focused garage i would expect you to understand and aprecate how modifiyed suspension can make the car safer. i can also understand that it can also make it worse, much worse if the wrong setup is performed IMO the standard suspension in a ke70 is not safe and that it should be replace with something lower and stiffer, maybe something like 4&3kg with some good quality shorter stroke shocks. that would be ideal for a daily that anyone could jump in and drive, mums dad grandpars etc. sbox: what you said sbox, shock absorbers do not play a lot of effect in controling body roll, if they arnt not working properly it will mess up the whole handeling not just body roll. Edited September 20, 2007 by tas_ae71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coln72 Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 "Go and talk to the people at your local spring works, get the job done properly" Just a word of warning, there are spring makers and then there are spring makers. Be very sure of what you are getting material wise. If they hot coil springs they probably not much better than cut ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas_ae71 Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 i have TRD springs waiting to go in which are of the highest quality but at the end of the day i can't ring up TRD and say 'can you make them another 2cm lower please...' no i can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 shock absorbers do not play a lot of effect in controling body roll, if they arnt not working properly it will mess up the whole handeling not just body roll. Yes they do. They do not limit how much body roll you get, BUT they control the rate of body roll in transient conditions. ie. They control how fast the car is allowed to roll. This is one of the most important aspects of suspension setup as it has a vast effect on weight transfer in cornering and under braking and acceleration conditions. Handling is all about controlling and taking advantage of weight transfer to best suit the vehicle you are driving and your driving style for given road or track conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapper Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 i have TRD springs waiting to go in which are of the highest quality but at the end of the day i can't ring up TRD and say 'can you make them another 2cm lower please...' indeed, you can't ... but cutting them isn't the right idea either. If you wanted these shocks shorter, you'd go to a spring maker and have them reset. That way the spring rate stays the same, the top and bottom coil shapes stay the same ... it just ends up shorter. There's not much point payng the dosh to get "good-quality" springs only to make them not much better than a u-pull-it job that's been chopped. There is only ever one reason for chopping springs: it can be done for "free". It is never a better solution: performance-wise safety-wise looks-wise Actually, I wish I'd said that earlier :) ... in fact I agree with myself so much that I'll say it again, with added emphasis. There is only ever one reason for chopping springs: it can be done for "free". I feel better already :D Don't get me wrong ... I've run cut springs before ... and have them in my AE71 at the moment. ... as a temporary measure ... Based on how they behave, I now know what spring rate and unloaded length I want for the AE71 and I can go to Industrial Spring Makers and either get them to make me some to spec, or check how close their off-the-shelf items are. cheers, Slapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love ke70 Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Yes they do. They do not limit how much body roll you get, BUT they control the rate of body roll in transient conditions. ie. They control how fast the car is allowed to roll. This is one of the most important aspects of suspension setup as it has a vast effect on weight transfer in cornering and under braking and acceleration conditions. Handling is all about controlling and taking advantage of weight transfer to best suit the vehicle you are driving and your driving style for given road or track conditions. thankyou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sbox Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 (edited) Deleted Edited May 24, 2008 by Sbox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love ke70 Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Not too sure about the unsafe bit, I worked on them when they came out and they were safe, comfortable and a reasonably well handling car.I think the main problem here, is that people want a race car on the road. Race cars on the race track and road cars on the road (does not mean it can't be lowered sensibly). i doubt that you, tas ae71, have driven a corolla with fully replaced standard suspension. i think you would find it is much nicer than you imagine. everything is probably 20 years minimum old. i, for example. was driving on shocks that were 400,000 km old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas_ae71 Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 (edited) nope not my car but a car that i drive about as much as my ow car, 6.5kg and 4.5kg new springs with new short stroke kyb excel-g shocks. i think this maybe a fractionaly stiff for a grip focused street setup. the car was fair on the road had had next to no body roll, grips very well. i was so impressed by this that I'm putting together a very simerla setup. as i have stated i have driven with many setups and this is the one i like the most. only thing that i ahvnt drievn with is one with the bushes all replaced. no i have not driven with fully replaced stock suspension as i have not met anyone how did not upgrade to better when replacing suspension components. os for the price diffrence it just makes sence to go a little better and have a better handeling car. when you buy springs alot of manufactors sell slightly stiffer than standard not tottaly standard for standard as i stated above i have driven with uber stiff s13 coilovers, 8&6, 6.5&4.5 all with new quality dampeners. so i think thats a bit of veriety and seeing as i was saying that stock ke70 gear is rubbish i would of had to experience better to form this kind of opinion. it dosent worry me if people do not agree with my suspension ideas, I'm going to keep on developing my suspension setup to find what works best for my car and whats best for street driving becasue thats where its going to sprend 99% of its time. Edited September 20, 2007 by tas_ae71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love ke70 Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 whats so great about the excel shocks? why not koni's? theyre a nice balance between street and track. bilsteins are a little too track orientated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kangaroosa Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 (edited) whats so great about the excel shocks?why not koni's? theyre a nice balance between street and track. bilsteins are a little too track orientated I have them in my N14 Pulsar. They are a common favourite among Pulsar owners because they are a decent brand shock and good quality (compared to the other brands in its price range). The Excel G's are not short stroke as far as I am aware. I rate them highly and are much better than the Pedders stuff that i used to run. The AGX are adjustable and obviously more expensive. The trouble with Koni's is basically the expense. Last time i checked, I got quoted well over $1000 (maybe even $1500) for the corolla. For that kind of money, coilovers are a better option in my opinion. Infact you get get a complete set of 4 D2 coilovers for roughly $1200 for a GTiR. I guess if you have the money for Koni's......then its a great option. If you have the money for Koni's, then chances are that you have enough for coilovers which would be even better. I guess its just a money thing. On the same hand, If your talking about chopping springs then chances are that you don't have too much money to be spending on Koni's. Back onto chopped springs though. I have said this before in a previous thread. If the person who started this thread has insurance, then cash it in because its wasted money if you are going to chop your springs. Edited September 20, 2007 by kangaroosa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love ke70 Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 depends whether you are talking yellows or reds. i run reds in the rear and got them for around 300 the pair. i ahve yellows in the front, as purchased. think they are around 250 each. of course chopped springs are a money thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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