pingushred Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 i am tossing up what would be best, 3tgte or 4age turbo for a ta22. both are about as easy as each other to put in. 4age would be cheaper but what would go better if and equall amount was spent on either motor? iv heard alot about 4age's but know very little about 3tgte's once done up. ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machg Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 i am tossing up what would be best, 3tgte or 4age turbo for a ta22. both are about as easy as each other to put in. 4age would be cheaper but what would go better if and equall amount was spent on either motor? iv heard alot about 4age's but know very little about 3tgte's once done up. ???? 3tgtes are a factory turbo motor and are very conservatively set-up and hence are easy to get power out of cheaply. If you are going to build a 4AGE Turbo, then you will want to base it on a 4AGZE (not cheap) then a custom exhaust (more $$) and turbo (more $$). Power potential is difficult to predict 1600cc versus 1800cc, 16 valve versus 8 valve. If I was going to do a 4AGZE with a turbo, I'd leave the supercharger on it and run a larger turbo (Google "Twincharger") I guess the 2 drawbacks with the 3TGTE are its old (hard to find and get parts for) and its an interference engine; snap the timing chain and you're up for an engine rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiahn Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 i don't know much about 3T's but 4age are an absolutely awesome motor, 4age's are revvy, light and there are heaps of brands to choose parts from. IMO go the 4agte, build it right and treat it nice and it'll last ages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El corona Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 i love my 3T-GTE in my corona. The thing weighs at 1100kgs, so with a TA22 that weigh something like 850-950 kgs (I'm gessing) it will be super fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the witzl Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 get a smallport 4AGE and turbo it. Ive had a fair bit of experience with both engines... and whilst the 3TGTE is "period cool" to the TA22, its also a technological dinosaur compared to the 4age. Also, parts are FAAAAAR easier to get for a 4age-turbo than they are for a 3TGTE. don't get my wrong, i love the old 8V twincams (I'm building an 18RGTE at the moment), but the benefits of the 4A really are worth it IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbey Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I would've thought the bigport would be better suited to Turboing than a smallport? (I'm not that well versed with 4AG science...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the witzl Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 its a common internet opinion. Personally, i feel that the smallport is a MUCH better engine. Why do you think toyota would change it if it wasnt superior? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbey Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) Ahh, but engine improvements are done to suit the factory application, not the needs of future tuners slapping the biggest snails on and pushing the most air they can through them. :wink: Incidentally my mate and I test drove a 3Tgte powered car the other day, I was impressed with it's power delivery. Seems nice and you get that blessed boost out of the box, without having to source and build a turbo motor from an NA one (or a GZE) But yeh, parts, availability, weight, size, number of spark plugs required at service... 4AG would win hands down. Edited July 3, 2009 by philbey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindKidSeeks Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 dare i say it... SR20DET? its a better engine than the 4AGZE, thats or sure i suppose the other option is to go 7AGTE, and really make a monster... theres a lot of work in the internals...but the rewards post op would be amazing. 4AGE's a geat motor, especially if you run them HighComp. very reliable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
styler Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 both motors are big long expensive builds, not that it puts people off though... 3tgte: is old and it will need definately need a rebuild and you might as well go forged internals as the price for stock internals + machining is very similar, plus you end up with more boost friendly forged internals and big oversize pistons if you so desire, 88.5mm overbore is recommended max on boost with a suitable block. computer is very basic and tuned aftermarket will work absolute wonders, its really needed in fact as the stock management is stone age to say the least. ct12 turbo is small and crap, consider rebuilt supra ct26 or ct26A for easy fit or these days a garret new or altered to spec is a very worthy investment and cheap, consider hiflow and small exhaust housing for better response. gearbox to be w55 not t50 if you go past factory power spec. shims are under bucket and precisionshims can make yours to suit at about $10ea so $80 total. you can use the 2tg head as it supposedly flows better and 2tg cams for better power band but this is a matter of opinion, its a lot of work for the power gain and is up to you. t series motors are period specific and so this helps with the originality of the car but its up to you to go for the power or classic category. t series motors are rwd and everything faces the right way and no gearbox dramas. t series are heavy. 4age: coming... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisandliz[RL] Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 atm, I'm trying to rebuild a 3tgte. most shops in Australia tell me that the 3tgte does not exist! If you want a cheapish easy build, get a 4age. gotta thank "Initial D" for something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_sandshoe Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 atm, I'm trying to rebuild a 3tgte. most shops in Australia tell me that the 3tgte does not exist! If you want a cheapish easy build, get a 4age. gotta thank "Initial D" for something. True to that... Initial D was great for getting tuner companies to start producing parts for the 4AGE... That said, for a bit additional for the importing fees, it appears about the same to get gear from the US for the T series engines. Wanting to run over 400hp at the wheels? lots of work (and money) with the 4A. In the states, dudes are running that with blow thru carb setups on 3T-C pushrod engines... Add twin cams and EFI to that, and you are onto a winner. Also, a wise old (not really that old) man once told me, If you want to build a high horsepower engine, get the oldest, heaviest iron block you can find, fill it with titanium and top it off with the newest best flowing heads you can find. This man is running a 454 big block from a 1972 Impala with exactly that inside, and topped off with a subtle supercharger for a reliable 1800bhp on PULP. Stuck that into a Monaro and went... well... fast. Bring on the new tech heads by all means, but want something strong? Go old school... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 True to that... Initial D was great for getting tuner companies to start producing parts for the 4AGE... That said, for a bit additional for the importing fees, it appears about the same to get gear from the US for the T series engines. The fact that Australia got the 4AGE standard in several cars made things a lot easier too - all 3TGTEs are either imported engines or in grey imported cars, which substantially reduces the market. Wanting to run over 400hp at the wheels? lots of work (and money) with the 4A. In the states, dudes are running that with blow thru carb setups on 3T-C pushrod engines... Add twin cams and EFI to that, and you are onto a winner. And the Puerto Ricans (the main ones running the crazy T-series turbos) do that because they are ridiculously cheap, and basically just run them until they blow up and then replace them with another block. Any engine can make massive power, but reliability (something desired in Australia a lot more than PR) is a different story altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerhead Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 There's been plenty of people over the years get 300hp atw with 4AGZE's without any internal work and just a well suited turbo charger, some went for weeks, some went for years. The smallport vs bigport debate is an old one. The reduced size of the ports was done to increase port speed and bottom end torque, for street driven motors. Funnily enough the formula atlantic head was based off the bigport, and most engine builders say for under 200hp the smallport is better, and for 200hp+ the bigport is the way to go. Port the crap out of your head and the gains are very negligible between the 2 though. I reakon the smallport's 10:1 compression ratio plays a hand in making the extra power aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the witzl Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 most engine builders are used to massive chev and ford engines where massive ports are necessary to add the massive amounts of fuel/air mix for the super inefficient engine. Similar rules do not apply for high performance modern turbocharged engines. Furthermore, the advances in turbocharger design and technology mean that smaller turbochargers can now spin up faster, producing more torque lower in the RPM range, with a larger area under the power curve, and a higher peak power than older and much larger turbochargers. Thereby negating the necessity to have oversized turbos and excessive porting just to be able to spin up that turbo to get the peak power figure desired. Thats just my opinion - i think there is a balance worth investigating that yields a much faster engine in real world applications, with a much more street driveable result..... rather than something that needs 4000rpm+++ to make any power. Smallport vs bigport - to be honest i think there is more in the turbocharger selection and manifold designs than the head that is used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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