Lola - Ke55 4a-gze

[ancullen]

I know it's been a long time since any updates, but there's not been anything to say as I haven't touched the car. Of course, racing is this weekend, so tomorrow & Friday I'm going to have to do a fair bit to her.

 

The current list of jobs is:

Change brake pads (I know, I know, I was meant to do that ages ago)

Replace battery (She's dead Jim)

Install swaybar & bushes (as soon as they arrive. Thank you again boofis :lmao: )

 

I have also made a decision recently about power upgrades (which won't happen for about 2-3 years anyway). I wasn't going to do it, but I can't resist the extra grunt. What am I talking about? Two words: Disco Potato. Yes, I'm thinking about converting from the SC12 to a Garrett GT28RS "Disco Potato" turbo. That seems to be the best turbo for my application, although I haven't really consulted anyone yet.

 

The other decision I have made is that I will try to continue to develop my KE55 into an Improved Production racer. Originally I didn't think that it would be worth it as I would have to compete in the 2001-3000cc class, and it wouldn't have been worth it with a supercharger. However with a turbo I believe I can gain enough power to be competitive.

 

I also intend to get a 7A motor at some point and build a 7A-GTE. This would keep my car in the same 2001-3000cc class, but the extra capacity should provide noticeably more power. I do know that I would be restricted in revs by using the 7A crank & conrods, however, when running forced induction on a racecar, I will also have to have an inlet restritor on the turbo, which also restricts my revs. So building a torquier motor will work in my favour.

 

Also, whilst I would love to make the best racecar I can with the KE55, if an AE86 or AW11 comes along at the right price, I will probably buy it. Both cars have far greater potential than the '55, and the extra weight of the cars will be no burden as I have to have a minimum weight of 1225kg if I'm competing in the 2001-3000cc Class so any of these three cars would have to have a fair bit of weight added. Ideally I'd like to go with the AW11, but an AE86 will probably end up being the one due to greater availability.

 

That is all.

[ancullen]

I don't particularly like the idea of buying a second hand turbo, and I've found GT28 turbo kits (exhaust manifold & turbo) for $935. This wasn't for the GT28RS, but I'm sure I could probably arrange to get the RS for not much more than a regular GT28. I'm not set on a particular turbo, but the Disco Potato seems to be a good option. However, before I take any steps forward I'd be speaking to some people in the know who understand compressor maps and all that other stuff. Plus I'd definitely be investigating further what effect a 34mm restrictor will have and the best way to lessen it's effect.

 

Here's where to go to get the GT28 Turbo Kit for a 4A-GE.

 

CAPA's price list (here) states prices for GT28's ranging from $1,250-$1,595 (WTF!?!?!). A GT28RS can be had from CAPA for $1,650.

 

So I reckon for about $1,200 I could arrange a turbo kit from Turbo Shop with a GT28RS. It's quite a lot of money, but if it will get me up to around 170-200kW at the wheels (without a restrictor), I'd be happy.

Edited May 23, 2006 by ancullen

[Biggo]

I say GT28 RS it...

 

IF i were to do a "dico patato" the itd be a gtrs turb.

 

Also, you get one of them funky "GT-RS Powered" stickers :lmao:

[ancullen]

Are you sure that the GT-RS sticker isn't for when you've got a HKS GT-RS?

 

Also, here's some interesting stuff about Eaton superchargers - how much power the superchargers take from your engine to provide your extra grunt.

 

Eaton MP45 - 750cc capacity, max revs 14,000rpm

 

Eaton MP62 - 1000cc capacity, max revs 14,000rpm

 

Eaton MP90 - 1500cc capacity, max revs 12,000rpm

 

Eaton MP112 - 1840cc capacity, max revs 12,000rpm

 

The Toyota SC12 supercharger has a capacity of about 1200cc, and the SC14 is a bit over 1400cc. The SC12 can be run at up to about 10,500rpm before its teflon seals melt. I've heard of people swapping the SC12 for an Eaton M45 (pretty much the same as the MP45, just an earlier model), and they didn't really gain any boost. The problem is that while it can rev much faster than the SC12, it has so much less capacity that it offers no gain. The MP62 could potentially offer a great deal of gain over the SC12, but you'd be draining about 35hp from the motor trying to run the bloody thing.

 

The main reason I've decided to switch to a turbo is the drain that superchargers place on the engine. I could run a turbo at the same boost as what I'm getting from my SC12 (10psi max) and I reckon I would easily pick up 30-40hp at the engine. People who have changed crank pulleys on their 4A-GZE's and done the ABV mod (to get max boost of 16psi) have got power figures of about 120kW at the wheels maximum. That's roughly 215hp at the engine. The AE101 4A-GZE makes 170hp standard. If I were to run a turbo at 16psi, with no other engine mods, I'd expect to be getting 250+hp at the engine. I know that I will get a little bit of lag by having a turbo (I'll try to minimise this when picking a turbo), but the hp gains would more than make up for it.

 

EDIT: Just noticed that the graphs I have show the Eaton's running up to 16,000rpm for the smaller two, and 14,000rpm for the MP90 & MP112. I had been looking at max revs for the previous generation, so you must be able to run them at higher rpm for the new versions, which means greater power gain, but also greater power drain.

Edited May 25, 2006 by ancullen

[Biggo]

Hmm, maybe i was mistaken about the gtrs turbs as ive only seen the sticc\ker on j spec cars :lmao:

 

About the gt28 + manifold you can get, is it a specifically designed mani for the 4age? Any info on the setup? linky? brand? i might have a look into it.

 

As for the sc's, have you had a look into and centfigual setups yet? Personally, i reckon these are the easiest to setup for more power but it still drains the motor and has a gutless bottom end heh.

[love ke70]

well wats the point of a supercharger with a gutless bottom end? then you may aswell just get a bloody turbo.

and ancullen, welcome to the dark side :lmao: lol

[Jason]

or get a SC14, simple cheap. It requies less power to run the same amount of boost.

[ancullen]

Biggo - there was a link to the site with the 4A-GE turbo kit in the earlier post about the GT28 turbo kit.

 

love KE70 - I agree, there's no point in having a supercharger with the main disadvantage of a turbo (lag) AND the main disadvantage of a supercharger (power drain). Would actually prefer naturally aspirated over forced induction, but am too much of a tight arse to spend the money to get the grunt I dream of.

 

Jason - an SC14 would require much of the same level of modification (if not more) as a turbo to get installed. And while it may draw less power than the SC12 to get, say 14psi, it would still be drawing a fair bit of power from the engine. Plus a turbo could run higher boost, providing even more power again. There just doesn't really seem to be anything in favour of the superchargers - aside from the instant throttle response.

[ancullen]

Have just been in touch with someone about an 86 that I might be able to buy for $1,000. It's missing some panels, but does have a bigport 4A-GE. Which would be great as I want a bigport head for when I build my 7A-GTE. Plus the 86 has better suspension options. And I could fund the car swap by selling off more KE55 bits such as:

• one welded 4.3:1 diff
  
• one non-welded 4.3:1 diff
  
• one welded 4.111:1 diff
  
• one 4.111:1 diff with completely f**ked spider gears (couldn't resist listing this :lmao:)
  
• one KE55 sedan shell in reasonable conditions - no major rust, but some extra holes drilled and bits cut out
  
• two good KE55 grilles & lights - make your Corolla square headlighted TODAY!!!
  

Quick, someone make me an offer on some parts so I can legitimately tell Alley that I can raise enough money by selling my current racecar to upgrade to a better one. :D

[Biggo]

Buy the sprinter and be confined to the couch every night for a week :lmao:

 

Hehe, i say buy the sprinter anyway, that way you have a few more spares incase the 4agze dies :D oh and you get a FREE car!!

 

Thanks for the linky too mate, I'm sure its gonna come in handy soonish *take the hint mr love ke70* :D

[love ke70]

the hint that your ganna try an beat me?

pfffttt!

u go turbo i can get my hands on a full TWIN T04 setup for $1500 so nerr :(

[Raven]

I know someone that is currently designing a turbo manifold that will bolt up to both 16v and 20v 4AGE's.

 

Once i ehar more from him, I'll let you alllllllll know about it.

[Tiger]

Just a bit further back.. why don't you do what that guy with the Red SX hatch from NSW [4PERVN] with the "super-turbo" 4AGZE motor. Taken from Hot4s "Matt's idea was to run the supercharger and turbo independantly, with both forcing air into a common pipe, which leads to the intercooler and then back into the inlet manifold. To stop the supercharger simply blowing air back into the turbo, a valve blocks off the turbo outlet until it is making more boost than the supercharger (which still operates at the factory 7 psi). The valve then opens so the higher boosting turbo can take over. Ordinarily, having a turbo blow into a blocked chamber could cause problems. However, as the valve is actually based on a throttle body, when the turbo starts making any boost, the valve will allow some bleeding which reduces the stress on the impeller blades."

 

Interesting hey? He's running a T3/4 Hybrid (running up to 15psi) and the standard SC12 blower.

 

Something to think about :(

[ancullen]

That's definitely an interesting setup Tiger. The only trouble is that when I want to run the car in Improved Production (Group 3J), instead of having just one 36mm restrictor in front of the turbo or supercharger, I'd actually have to have a 27mm restrictor in front of both the supercharger and the turbo. This means that both would be EXTREMELY restricted, and the turbo wouldn't be able to make very much boost at all. But for an unrestricted car it seems like a very good setup.

[Biggo]

Hey adam - are you still running the T50 behind that gze? Hows she holding up? Personally I'm of the opinion that a w5x is wayyy to big for a lil 1.6 so I'm looking at throwing a twin plate on to preserve it. heh ive already got option 1's old clutch setup :(