MattJA Posted January 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 haha don't think he would be impressed. we were both trying to stick to carby!!?? his pinto is carby. but I'm still not sure. the 4ag or 4age I'm thinking is the difference between carby and EFI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 The 4AGE was only ever EFI. With that said, people do convert them to carburettor variants using a modified 4K-C Distributor along with a few other little bits and pieces. The 4 denotes the series of the engine, the A is the style of the engine, the G denotes the design of the twin cam head being wide port with non-sissor gears whilst the E denotes its electronic fuel injection. Toyota is a little odd with the way they use there coding system, that should give you a little insight to the madness : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJA Posted January 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 any reason why they convert them to carby fed?? would it be difficult to do? and with much of a power loss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRMOPARMAN Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) people go for carbs (45mm webers) for the throaty sound, they make as much power as a decent EFI system, and think its cheaper. in reality, the initial setup cost of EFI is slightly more, but ends up cheaper becuase you don't have to buy jets/emulsions/chokes etc to make them work properly, once they are set and forget, you can tune for power AND economy, and can even run multiple maps for different applications. and done RIGHT, they will give slightly better power than webers. if you mate is definately doing the cosworth head, start with a 7a, that will give you less capacity disadvantage. go either a smallport or a blacktop head. along with blacktop ITB's, and mount the injectors in the trumpets rather than the factory position at the head. aim for 11.5/12.0:1 compression. keep the internals as light as possible get yourself a 4A-W5x bellhousing, and a supra/celica/corona box. get a T or F series diff. preferably T as they are lighter. will need to be shortened to fit a '25. once you have all that set up and working to its potential, it should keep the esky honest :) Edited January 11, 2012 by MRMOPARMAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordain Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Go 3SGE Beams... it's a good fit and good little conversion. Here's mine in my KE10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJA Posted January 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 there is a fair bit of modding for the 3sge isnt it?? mounting, fire wall, gbox tunnel, housing, tailshaft?? i would love the 3sge but my mate and i are doing cars up each, hes doing a ford pinto in an escort, and we are trying to keep it similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJA Posted January 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Jordain - do you have any more pics of ur 3sge you could post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordain Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 It virtually bolts straight upto a stock KE20 cross member once you cut the mounts off using a BA falcon engine mount. Obviously firewall work and transmission tunnel work. A gearbox mount and the engine bolts is mounted in. It's a really good conversion, I'm so glad I'm doing it. Here's a link to my build thread. Jordains BEAMS KE10 It's piss easy to get it to mount into a KE10/20 once the firewall is removed. You need to run a LEEN SXE10 shifter kit which brings the gearstick 170mm forward. Obviously you will have to do the following: Firewall Tunnel Gearbox mount Modify stock mounts Radiator Exhaust Diff tailshaft Wiring Beware it's not for the faint hearted.. all I think about 24/7 is my car. It fvcks with you, mentally and physically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRMOPARMAN Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 apart from the firewall, all that will need doing for a 4age conversion too. jordain - did you weigh the 3sge before you put it in? id be interested in finding out how heavy they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordain Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 127kg with plenum and extractors, flywheel and clutch, air con pump too. No idea how much the gearbox weighs... feels like a good 40kg. Not much difference from a worked 4AGE with a W Series box.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJA Posted January 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 leaving the firewall alone is a big bonus. i was wanting to go carby with the 4age or 2T. but idea of a 3sge is like sex in the back of my mind. and i don't want to do what Jordain did and buy 3 different motors and change my mind haha decisions decisions. if bolting a cosy head onto a pinto block ultimately drives the hp up, can you, or is there any gain in bolting a 20v 4age head and ITBs onto 16v block???? I'm not really keen on the 4age 20v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke70dave Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 i hate to put it bluntly but have you googled any of these options? everything you are talking about has been discussed to death, and actual conversions documented. We are happy to help out, but we arent going to google what you are asking and produce those links, eg: http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=52857 gains will be there, if you get an aftermarket ecu to go with it. i did 16V, was good, but you need shorter gear ratio in the back to get it going and it was just lacking a bit of power. perhaps uprated cams and head work would have surficed. i would go 20V over 16V if i did it again. helps you can get newish blacktop 4ages (~1996-96), 16Vs are getting pretty old, luckily they are reasonably cheap to rebuild (lots of parts available). consdiderably more expensive for a 20V over 16V conversion though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJA Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 yeah i know, sorry i have. i think i have read too much in too short of time. its all mooshing together lol i appreciate your time lads, I'm just not sure i where i want to go with it. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ke70dave Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 if you can go a 20V id do that. some inspiration if you decide on 3sge. http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/41484-ke25-3sge-rack-pinion-full-rebuild-coilovers-price-drop/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRMOPARMAN Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 if bolting a cosy head onto a pinto block ultimately drives the hp up, can you, or is there any gain in bolting a 20v 4age head and ITBs onto 16v block???? I'm not really keen on the 4age 20v you can't just bolt a cosworth head onto a pinto and expect the power to increase. you need to go over the whole bit, change pistons and get the comp up etc, then you wil start to see increases. its the same with the 4age. you can bolt the 20v head onto a 16v, as they are very similar blocks, but you will lose power, as you will loose compression and have heavier internals. if your not keen on a 20v, then how will putting a 20V head onto a 16V be any different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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