Envy Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 (edited) Hey all, Ive been speaking to a few members off Rolla, about my *initial* idea of a FWD 4AGE 100kW engine conversion... anyway I've realised that I will not have the funds for that project - So unfortunately I'm scrapping it! Anyway, Mick gave me the idea of going RWD 4AGE 86kW engine + Twin Webber Carbys (as to eliminate the computer) - Now I think this is a pretty good idea, and would be much cheaper to. Now I'm In Adelaide and my budget is $1500 (Including Labour... Myself and Others \ Workshop) I do not want to go over this budget, otherwise I cannot afford to do this project. I can use the following: -Exisiting T-50 gearbox -Exisiting Clutch -Exisiting Diff -Exisiting Breaks -Exisiting Radiator -Exisiting Fuel System \ Lines What I need to change: -Reverse Intake Inlets -Fabricate Custom Exhaust Manifold Now I know the engine will drop straight in, and bolt up, but WHAT OTHER PARTS \ CHANGES will I need to get her 100% running. Cheers, George Edited April 17, 2006 by Envy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Read Me Have a look at that mate (click above link) READ_ALL_OF_IT ! there is Alot of info there, and even MORE sub-links ! :lolcry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xany Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Ok well i can see one problem you have overlooked.... To run an EFI engine with carbies you will still need something to control the ignition, as in your case you are not using any computer. Thanks to Bill sherwoods internet site i found this. It can be done.....but its not really the ideal setup. Ignition controlAs soon as you get away from using the factory computer with the 4AGE, you will have to find a way to control the spark advance, as the factory distributor has no mechanical advance mechanism at all - The computer does it all. The distributor has two 'trigger' wheels inside it, one for the computer to sense the rpm of the engine and the other for sensing when a piston is at TDC. The cheap & nasty way to make the dizzy work without the factory computer is to simply hook up an ignitor module (eg, Bosch) and then run the engine without any spark advance. Speaking from about 70,000km experience of this, it's really not big deal - The only hassle is that the engine can be a little hard to start when cold or very hot. Another solution is to fit the engine with an electronic dizzy out of a 4K-E, as they have an electronic 'reluctor' like the 4AGE dizzy, but also have mechanical spark advance. They require a small adapter plate to be machined up, but it doesn't look very difficult to do from what I've seen. I have also seen a small black box, when I was living in New Zealand, that hooks up to the 4AGE dizzy that controls the spark as if it had regular spark advance. Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the box in question, but it was about NZ$400, or about Aus$300, or US$200. A friend of mine has one, Liam Venter , and so he should be able to tell you more about it and how it works. Yet another way to control the spark, even on a heavily modified engine, is to use the factory computer in parallel with whatever you have controlling the fuel already. All you have to do is run the tacho trigger and power to the factory computer and run the right output wires from it to the factory dizzy and it should control the spark in much the same fashion as a stock engine does. (not sure if the factory computer uses MAP sense to modify the spark advance output or not, but it'll still work ok, and certainly be better than nothing in any case) The best way to control the spark on a modified 4AGE, however, is to use a good aftermarket computer, such as a Motec, Haltec, Autronic, etc. They all have very customisable maps to accurately control the spark advance, and so can be made to give the best possible power at all times. The other methods mentioned above are quite simplistic by comparison, but are fine for road use anyway. A full race engine requires the best possible method available, so there is need to be able to control the spark on the odd occasion by even knowing which gear the car is in ... so there you have it......you will need to source something to control the spark on the engine if not using the stock computer. cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love ke70 Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 ignition only ecu's are costly too. iv just got one custom made for the 1ggte running lpg in the ke70. lookin at around 1100 AU$ for ignition only...so hmm as bill says, you can get away with a unit with onle mach advance, but coz I'm turbo's i need boost retard. something to keep in mind if you have any future plans for forced induction. also the price of twin webbers isnt gonna be much less than the price of setting a car up for efi in my opinion. and then you have issues with having to tune, and your never get as gooder tune from carbs as you are an ecu. also an ecu will adapt to all conditions whereas a carb has to be tuned to the weather, so a retune for summer and winter is required if you want best performance. remeber, carbs are old school for a reason. but lpg carbs rock! its half the prive of petrol, it sounds like a carb'd engine, and you get the same power as fuel if you run them on dedicated lpg.... plus you can up compression and advance the spark :D but i degress... one thing i wondered is: isnt the 4a-c rad gonna be a little hard pushed when you have a 4age workin its titties off ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trd Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 igition isn't a problem at all follow this http://www.link-electro.co.nz/lem_ignition_link.html rally proven!! for a good delorto set up your looking about $1000 with manifold, carbs & air cleaners(k&n) but they do make more power than the efi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROLLN'03 Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 I think that you will find, in the end, that a carb set up 4age will cost more....... Others will disagree!.......:dance: Hit me up with a PM to discuss further, but don't be scared of wiring in a 4age loom etc. Its not as costly as you think........... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 (edited) His main concern is that he'd have to get a FWD inlet cut and shut to be suited for RWD, then get extractors/exhaust made and then buy the engine/loom/ecu and then wire in the loom. It can be done, but for $1500, i think he will blow out his budget by another $1000. Edited April 18, 2006 by AE35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 but lpg carbs rock! its half the prive of petrol, it sounds like a carb'd engine, and you get the same power as fuel if you run them on dedicated lpg....plus you can up compression and advance the spark :dance: You forgot one thing Valve Seat Recession and burnt valves. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROLLN'03 Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Hmmmmm.... :D Just do your research etc. 1. Find a cheap running 4age (doesnt matter what type - you can upgrade later) try Just Jap...... 2. Find a ECU - seen em around for $50.00 3. Buy a loom, try Anthony Kellam $400.00? 4. Cut n Shut? I'm not sure on this one..... 5. Stragz....... Someone will have a spare set, but just find a set of RWD standard headers from somewhere. If you hunt, scrounge etc........ YOU CAN DO IT! :dance: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Envy Posted April 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 cheers for the info \ advice guys... yes my budget will have blown over $1500... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerhead Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 make sure you source a new flywheel aswell, the 4AC job won't bolt up. (I've got a spare). I've recently heard that the dizzy on the 4AGE spins the oppisite way to a K motor, so there is no advance of the spark, just retardation when the advance kicks in. 4AC radiator should hold up ok as long as you run an oil cooler. My mate's has had no trouble in 2 years set up like this, and he has 288 degree cams! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapper Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 do you need to register the result? if you do, remember that it will be way harder to register anything in South Australia in non-factory configuration. cheers, Slapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Will need torsion test/lane-change test/emissions test = Engineering.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boost+k Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 for the dissy can't you use the 3a-u electronic dissy and coil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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