Electronic Distributor

[Banjo]

Hey Wayne,

                     Probably so many over there they use them as boat anchors !

[Banjo]

Hi Jeremy,

                  I must comment on your following statement.

Quote

The thing is, just like points, the hall effect sensors are also affected by over current through the coil, so they are not that much better than points in my opinion.
IMO, The absolute best, is a factory igniter, like the nippondenso 5K distributor, with internal igniter. with these there is no constant flow of high current to power the hall effect sensor, it uses an magnetic inductance reluctor instead. and they last forever.

There is no  "constant flow of high current to power the hall effect sensor".  That is quiet untrue. The Hall Effect sensor is a low voltage, extremely low current device that senses a magnetic field (usually a north pole) and produces a sharp DC voltage step change, which is used as a trigger signal.  The amount of current drawn by this sensor is miniscule.  It is true that the reluctance sensor is just a coil, which produces a small AC voltage waveform, when the metalic vane passes it.  It has a few problems though, in that the AC waveform output is dependent on speed, so when you are starting the car, & it is cranking over, the output is at its lowest, which is just the time you want the best & highest signal.  The Hall Effect device is totally unaffected by the speed of rotation. The reluctance sensor's output being a rough sinewave, is not suitable as a trigger signal, so some processing of this signal has to be carried out, to turn it into a square wave, so it can be effectively used as a trigger signal.  However, I agree they are very reliable & were fitted to many cars in the past as a first transistion, by manufactures away from "points" systems.

The high current switched by any ignition ignitor, is always a function of the particular coil used, & it's primary resistance. Like any device, there are a range of ignitors, with different max. current carrying capacities. I have ignitors here capable of 4A max, 9A max. 16A max & 19A max. It's simply a case of matching coil & & ignitor to suit.  The 4A capacity of the Accuspark, is well capable of handling the coils fitted to many cars, as per their listings, and are ideally suited to our Rollas with standard ignition coils, with or without ballast resistors.

Low ohm primary ignition coils are only really required on 6 & 8 cylinder engines, where charging time has to be reduced to allow full charging & full output of the coil at higher revs.

Our Rollas are a 4 cylinder car, so there is rarely an issue there or need for a low ohm coil, unless you are red-lining at 8000 rpm regularly !

Cheers Banjo

Edited December 14, 2017 by Banjo

[rebuilder86]

haha yeh stick em in my suitcase.

in all seriousness we could really abuse the balikbayan service and start exporting them to australia in carboard boxes. the poor deliverymen.

its just steel so wouldnt be dangerous goods.

google balikbayan.

[rebuilder86]

i have been emailing hotspark about the 3 ohm thing and they (perhaps just a salesperson) assured me that their technology is superior in terms of spark quality but must be used with correct coils.

according to bosch the coils that power most factory electronic distributors are HEI type, at less than 1 ohms and are usually (perhaps always) transformer coils.. this suggests to me that they can handle much more current. I'm quite certain of that finding.
Bosch refer to electronic distributors as described in this screenshot and talk about the HEC suitablitiy their appropriate coils as HEC or MEC.
These are always low resistance coils.

And then this from the product specs (see bold ohms ratings)
Part Number Outputs Type [ohms] [ohms] Connector Terminal Comments
GT40R 1 Oil Filled 1.2 8 - 10 K M4/M5 Standard Canister type
GT40RT 1 Transformer 1.5 8.6 K M4/M5 Standard Type “A”
HEC 715 1 Transformer 0.41 7.8 K M4/M5 Standard Type “A”
HEC 716 1 Transformer 0.41 7.8 K M4/M5 DIN type Type “B”
MEC 717 1 Transformer 0.45 6.6 K M4/M5 Standard Type “A”
MEC 718 1 Transformer 0.45 6.6 K M4/M5 DIN Type Type “B”
9 220 061 710 1 Transformer 0.4 7.8 K M4/M5 DIN Type Type “B”
0 221 503 407 2 x 2 Epoxy Filled 0.5 13.3 K 1 237 000 039 Standard Double ended coils
0 221 503 002 3 x 2 Epoxy Filled 0.5 13.3 K 1 287 013 900 Standard Double ended coils

Edited December 15, 2017 by rebuilder86

[rebuilder86]

sorry i should say HIGH CURRENT FLWO TO THE HALL EFFECT SENSOR, but there is a constant flow. as opposed to none with a reluctor type.
Saying that, the overheating issue is with the switching on and off side, not the powered side(dependant on the current coming from the coil) so perhaps i shouldnt have mentioned it at al as it will just create confusion.

[parrot]

Getting slightly off topic for Graeme and Ms Princess however.

Sorry, i shouldn't have moved things in that direction

 

[7000rpm]

8 hours ago, Banjo said:

Hey Wayne,

                     Probably so many over there they use them as boat anchors !

Please don't upset me...

5 hours ago, rebuilder86 said:

haha yeh stick em in my suitcase.

in all seriousness we could really abuse the balikbayan service and start exporting them to australia in carboard boxes. the poor deliverymen.

its just steel so wouldnt be dangerous goods.

google balikbayan.

 

Liking the sound of this, but in a suitable box though. Well I definitely need one for the next engine. 

Squeezed my 4k for all the bang for buck mods, maintaining street driveability and 98 fuel. Now i need to plan swapping that gear over into an 83mm bored out 5k block

Edited December 15, 2017 by 7000rpm

[rebuilder86]

https://www.olx.ph/item/toyota-4k-5k-liteace-fx-distributor-electronic-type-ID7O55W.html?h=36ef101338
90 dollars gets u a good genuine brand new 5k distributor here hahah, itll fit straight in ur 4k and has everything in it u need. no modules nothin, its all inside.
You see, in Australia, we pay a premium for every wealthy bastard who gets paid along the supply chain.
If you want it ill get it n bring it to aus. (perth, then u pay for postage from there)

[Big G]

Ok so the long and short of it is...it is as simple as i want it to be at a relatively cheap price.....as long as it will be plug and play. I will do my research on the bits I have and speak to the boys at robroy and see if it will be available for the bosch dizzy. I have a new set of points i will throw in tomoz to make do until I get the show on the road. I am sure i will have questions so watch this space. Thanks for the advice. 

[7000rpm]

Suggest you tell your daughter to be mindful of leaving the key in the reds position, with the engine not running. This is known to damage points, and quite often forgotten about these days.

[altezzaclub]

Sorry, no plug & play for you...

The 5K is a great idea, new dizzy all throughout, but the advance curve is a dog & kills any performance you had. It will need a timing re-curve as I wrote about in The Girls KE70, either do it yourself or send to Melb.

I love Banjo's idea of a programmable electronic system, on my long list of things to do one day...

[Big G]

When I say plug and play I mean without having to go to too much modifying of other bits and pieces. Is it as simple as ripping out the points and condenser installing the module in the dizzy a bit of wiring hit the key and do the timing? I just need it to be reliable so i don't keep getting the midnight breakdown calls...oh and for her safety as well...lol

[parrot]

The item discussed early on in the thread is very much plug and play.  Well screw, plug and play really.

Take out the points and rotor, install the wheel and screw in the pickup module in place of the points, reinstall the rotor connect the wires and away you go (basically).

As Banjo suggested, it's a really good idea to remove the base plate that the points screw to, and to clean up and lubricate the bob weights, along with the vacuum advance mech with a tiny bit of oil.  The retainer screws are pretty small so make sure they don't full on the ground

Very easy to install.  Let us know if they have a bosch item available and how you get on.

Edited December 16, 2017 by parrot

[rebuilder86]

reliability wise, the 5k internal is better.
But yeh it is deigned for a 5k motor, and for heavy pigs, so the advance is a bit different.
I've fixed that by putting both vacuum advance cans to the manifold, by Teeing them together and running simply off manifold joined together for both.
Sorry i shouldn't say fixed, lets say, greatly improved 

Edited December 17, 2017 by rebuilder86

[Banjo]

Early in this thread, I mentioned the Jaycar programmable ignition system, which I have had in my KE30 2 door for a number of years.  These modules can be triggered by various means, including points, if you so desire.

Quote

I should declare, that although I use the Accuspark, I don't use it to charge & switch the coil, as intended.  Instead of the coil, I have a 100 ohm resistor tied to +12V, and this produces a lovely square waveform, which I use to trigger the input of a Jaycar programmable ignition system, where you can set the advance curve easily to anything you want or need.  My dear olde Denso 3K dizzy (smallest one ever fitted to Rollas) has been gutted, & the bob weights removed & the two ends of the shaft locked together with tie wire & Araldite, so there is no movement at all.   Absolutely perfect result, which once I got the curve right, has never been touched since. 

This kit from Jaycar was released in 2007, so it is 10 years olde.  It was one of Silicon Chips most successful kits.  I notice Jaycar are selling them out at present.  Originally, they sold for nearly $ 100.00. At the moment they are $ 22.92 ea.

https://www.jaycar.com.au/programmable-high-energy-ignition-system/p/KC5442

If you want to get into programmable ignition at a basement bargain price, then now is the time. Jaycar are out of stock, for on-line sales, but various Jaycar stores around Australia  have them in stock.  Just click on the store check, in the link above, & pop in your postcode, to find the nearest store.

Most stores in Brisbane have them. I happened to be in Canberra at the moment, & picked up their last two kits at Jaycar's Fyshwick store this morning.

The Programmable Ignition System kit comes with comprehensive instructions.  Not normally available on-line, but found a website where someone has posted it, if anyone wants to have a read of it's capabilities.

http://www.vespalabs.org/@api/deki/files/479/=kc5442_Programmable_High_Energy_Ignition_System.pdf

Cheers Banjo

Edited December 21, 2017 by Banjo