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Electronic Distributor


Big G
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Ok so the Princess' rolla blasted another set of points while she was sitting in traffic on her way home. It hiccuped and died. So I got the call and did a quick road side tune up and she limped home. 

Question 1. Why does this happen?  she is on her second set of points in 6 months.

Question 2. Is there an electronic dizzy swap that has limited mucking around for installation and what is the approximate cost?

We are talking 4k engine.

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I’m a traditionalist, so everything has to be factory. Unless we are talking about points, which are the spawn of the devil. 

http://www.simonbbc.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=Toyota

note these suit the Denso distributor. If yours is Bosch, talk to them about fitment. 

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Hi Graeme,

                     Agree with everything Pete has said above.  I to am a traditionalist, to some extent, & the simplest, & most effective way to remove the issue of the points, is to use an electronic module, that simply replaces the points.  There are various types, like Hot Spark, Pertronix etc. I used an Accuspark, which are available here in Australia (Melbourne) on line.

Here is a video of how simple it really is to swap the system over. About 30 mins. if you take your time, & know exactly what you've got to do, before you start.

Have a look at this video, & see what you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lcx_Qr0KyM

I'll add a post with a link to where you can get them in Australia & cost etc.

There are a few checks you should do before ordering the kit.

1.  The dizzy make & model you already have fitted, as Parrot has mentioned above.

2.  The coil fitted, as these small "points replacement" modules cannot handle coils with very low primary winding resistances.

I've been running one for several years now, & it is faultless.  In the old days, I've only had points fail on me once, whilst out on the road, but I always kept a set of points in the glove box, so never got really stuck, like your girl.

P.S.  The beauty of these systems is, that they use your distributor cap, where under it, is hidden all the components of this system. Someone lifting your bonnet, would never know you have an electronic system fitted.

Cheers Banjo

 

                 

 

Edited by Banjo
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Hi Graeme,

                   Here is where you can get it in Australia.  Free Postage, & only $ 75.00.  They have come down in price, as I'm sure I paid about $ 96.00 a couple of years ago.  This one suits the Denso dizzy. Check, just to make sure your dizzy is not a Bosch one.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Toyota-Corolla-3K-4K-Electronic-Ignition-Conversion-kit-for-Nippon-Denso/162755909396?hash=item25e5021714:g:RHoAAOxycERRlJP2

If your coil has a primary resistance lest than 3.0 ohms, without ballast resistor (highly unlikely) you may have to replace it.  Have a read of Accusparks details instructions & considerations.  Everything thing is covered including wiring diagrams for every possible wiring scenario you may have on your KE70.

Total resistance switched by the Accuspark must be no lower than 3.0 ohm, whether coil by itself, or coil + ballast resistor

Coil = 3.0 ohms  ) no ballast resistor.

Coil = 1.5 ohm = ballast resistor = 1.5 ohm.  Total 3.0 ohms.

http://www.accuspark.co.uk/fitting_guide.html

If you want to go this way, I'm only too happy to call by your place in Buccan & give you a hand.

Cheers Banjo

Edited by Banjo
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That's great Banjo.

I honestly would never have points in a car again.  My wife had an 1100 Mk 1 Escort that would continually burn points, and they were damn hard to get at and adjust properly with feeler gauges let alone trying to get dwell right.  Seriously though, points have a hard time of it and are so crucial to the reliable and efficient running of the car.  An electronic replacement module is such an easy and essentially foolproof solution, and dare I say the most important and cost effective modification you can make.  It's a no brainer.

Of course it's equally important that the distributor is in otherwise good condition without play in the shaft for it to work properly.

I'm not sure why people go for a full electronic replacement distributor, other than the fact that it's new, which when considering the one in the Princess's car is probably 40 odd years old is a reasonable thought.  But as you will read elsewhere on here, that can then result in issues with the mechanical advance being wrong for the engine.

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Hi Pete,

             Yes it is a real no brainer !   Unlike a conventional dizzy, where wear in the shaft, bushes, & cam itself, causes "wobble", and directly effects the points gap, & timing, the Accuspark, and others like it, don't care at all.  There is no "contact", just a small air gap between the  embedded 4 off magnets on the shaft "slip on", & the single Hall Effect sensor in the module itself.  The gap is not even critical, and is typically 1mm.  The important thing is it must not touch.

The module is just what it says;  it is a points replacement module.  It has no real "smarts" in it, so it does not provide centifugal advance etc. Vacuum & Centifugal advance is still a function of the distributor itself, so they must be in good condition.   I guess that is why some people go for the ebay new aftermarket dizzies, as you get new bob weighs & vacuum unit.

However, I always wonder what advance curve they offer. The ones on the net, were for 5Ks, which were used in commercial vehicles, & not really an appropriate curve to get good top end performance when placed in a road car.

I should declare, that although I use the Accuspark, I don't use it to charge & switch the coil, as intended.  Instead of the coil, I have a 100 ohm resistor tied to +12V, and this produces a lovely square waveform, which I use to trigger the input of a Jaycar programmable ignition system, where you can set the advance curve easily to anything you want or need.  My dear olde Denso 3K dizzy (smallest one ever fitted to Rollas) has been gutted, & the bob weights removed & the two ends of the shaft locked together with tie wire & Araldite, so there is no movement at all.   Absolutely perfect result, which once I got the curve right, has never been touched since. As Rollas were purposely detuned ignition curve wise, to limit top end, to avoid warranty claims in Toyotas early days into mass production, I estimate I've unleashed another 10 HP out of my  42 year olde Rolla.   One day I must put it on a dyno & see. 

Cheers Banjo  

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yerp. timing light runs off the spark plug coil. it Don't care how the coil was asked to fire:)

Ill play the devils advocate and say in the few yrs i owned my 4k with points, they never really gave me any hastle. bought a new set every year cause they are like 5bucks, never burnt any out. just they were so cheap i threw a new set in. The electronic ignition system is superior, but there also should be no reason points should continually burn out. They are tedious to adjust but i never had much trouble. 

I once put a screw driver in to adjust the points....with the ignition on...far out what a buz a coil gives you at full power. Would not recommend. 

Edited by ke70dave
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You will have to get in touch with them direct Graeme.  I reckon if you tell them which point set it uses, that will help them.

Points usually get burnt out if you have the wrong coil or a bad condensor. 

It's worth giving the contact faces a wipe with metho before fitting to remove any preservative stuff too

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Hi Graeme,

                    Yes, as Parrot says, contact the guys at RobRoy in Melbourne & tell them you have a 4K with a Bosch dizzy, & they will fix you up.  They have done it before.

https://www.robroyhistoricgarage.com.au/contact_us.html

You won't regret it.

Parrot has been looking at the Accuspark Black Box programmable ignition module.  Haven't played with it myself, but It has good reports.  The Black Box only allows 7 off points to map the curve. The Jaycar has twice that number of points, so is a smoother curve.

The advantage of the Accuspark is that you will never ever have to readjust the points again. There is no gap setting. There are two things that upset the old points system on olde dizzies.

With new points, perfectly adjusted, in theory you will get excellent results straight away. Fortunately it is all down hill from that point on. It's not just the points.  The rubbing block material doesn't seem to be as good as it was years ago. The blocks wear down, the points gap reduces & the timing also changes. The real culprit is the uneven wear on the lobes on the shaft.  This has the gap changing constantly & timing jumping around.  Altezzaclub has a good trick to show this effect, by putting the timing light pickup on the lead out of the dizzy, rather than no: 1 Spark Plug.  If the timing marks indicates it jumping around, there is a good chance you've got a worn shaft and/or worn lobes. Accuspark overcomes all those problems, as there is no contact & the gap movement is non critical.

I would recommend if you are going to fit the Accuspark, that it is worth taking out the base plate in the dizzy, & inspecting, cleaning & oiling the bob weights, springs & pivots. If the pivots  are very worn, they can catch, & you will never get full advance. Unfortunately, hidden down under the dizzy top plate, they are out of site, & often forgotten, but are so crucial for good performance.

Here are a couple of pics showing how clean the Accuspark mod is in the dizzy, and my Jaycar system hidden down on the passengers side.

DSC02744.thumb.JPG.3621e3f85d7f3c1097e26e0ae1f315e5.JPG

DSC02755.thumb.JPG.1c79ebdecdf286dfdc17330fa41546a4.JPG

DSC02756.thumb.JPG.3d347c24a0224945079d0fa8c400b30d.JPG

5a32375b56465_FastStartMod.thumb.jpg.111d02c739d3fc72c9abc3322ff23626.jpg

 

 

Cheers Banjo

                    

Edited by Banjo
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that diagram shows a 1.4 ohm coil, be aware that all the hall effect ignition modules, (i think ALL aftermarket points replacement modules) require 3 ohm minimum for 4 cylinder application. ( so a 3 ohm coil or a 1.5 + a 1.5 ohm ballast resistor)
hehe banjo will tell you all about that.
The thing is, just like points, the hall effect sensors are also affected by over current through the coil, so they are not that much better than points in my opinion.
IMO, The absolute best, is a factory igniter, like the nippondenso 5K distributor, with internal igniter. with these there is no constant flow of high current to power the hall effect sensor, it uses an magnetic inductance reluctor instead. and they last forever.
however finding one might be difficult.
I'm coming back to aus in feb, and will gladly bring one back in my suitcase if its required!
Plenty at the local scrap yards here in the philippines!! 5 k motors everywhere

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Hi Jeremy,

                   Good point !  Sorry if my wiring diagram above confused anyone. 

My coil is 1.4 ohms, but is only switched by the Accuspark during starting.  As soon as the engine starts, it switches over to the Jaycar programmable controller.  The Jaycar fires an external ignitor, of my own making, which can handle  currents up to 16 amperes, so handles the 1.4 ohm primary coil OK.

The Accuspark has no trouble handling the 1.4 ohm coil current, as it is only for a few seconds, until the engine starts. I did this, because the Jaycar unit seemed to need the engine to turn over a few times, to gets its inputs right, before doing its calculation & outputting a firing pulse . By using the Accuspark to start the engine, it starts instantly every time, just like my wife's late model Corolla.  Lots of people comment, how easily & quickly my Rolla starts.

Putting excess current through the Accuspark will not kill it instantly.  They only fail when subjected to high current for some time, when heat is built up in the module, and the internal electronic fail.  The electronic 5K dizzies do the same, if low ohm primary coils are used.  They won't instantly fail, but will over time.

Cheers Banjo

Edited by Banjo
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