General 4k Ke70 Upgrades.

[B.L.Z.BUB]

Ok so now the beast is legal I can start doing all the fun stuff.

 

Ive been trolling the forums and tech section as to 4k upgrades and I've got a few questions. Bear with me.

 

Next I'm planning on getting the standard extractor 2" exhaust

Then upgrading the carbie, maybe just a cheapo nikki for the moment, then something good at a later stage.

Then getting a cam regrind.

 

Is there a particular order these should get done for best results? Am I missing something vitally important? I.e. fuel pump etc.

Is it a good idea for me to tackle the cam myself without having done one? I have the aptitude and can follow instructions but I'm sure there is more to it.

 

I don't want to hear get a 4age etc please, I just want a fun little 4k that sounds good. Brake/strut upgrades will be happening at the same time but I can handle that as its pretty basic part swapping. As its become my daily I really don't want to have it off the road for weeks scratching my head bugging the hell out of you guys.

 

I've searched but havent come across a good cam replacement walk through yet (if there even is one). Just the written one in the tech section without any pretty pictures :P

Found the nikki walk through, awesome write up.

Ill get someone else to sort the zorst.

 

Cheers guys.

 

Reed.

Edited April 1, 2010 by blzbub666

[ke70dave]

to be honest i cannot work out what you are asking.

 

you appear to know the mods to do.

 

think of your engine and associated components as a peice of pipe, and you want to try and get as much air to travel through this pipe as possible. (an engine is an airpump)

 

now if you were to say, enlarge one end of this pipe and kept the rest of the pipe the same (think of a funnell), how do you think it is going to compare to standard? it will flow a bit more but you are still restricted by the rest of the pipe being small.

 

the thing with engines, is they are only as "good" or "Fast" as their weakest link.

 

you can have an epic exhaust (the back end of the pipe), and a nice carby/intake (the front end of your pipe) but if you don't do something about the middle of your pipe (compression/camshaft) then it will be like pinching the peice of big hose and wondering why not much water comes out. it will flow good at one end, and the other end, but not where you have pinched it. and thus overall it will only flow as much as the middle.

 

see what I'm getting at?

 

a carby and exhaust is a good way to get some more horespowers out of your engine, but in order to maximise the potential you need to have supporting mods.

 

not saying a carby and exhaust wont make you go faster, it prolly will. based on how terrible the standard items.

 

there is like a billion threads on upgrades for k motors. in a nutshell. good carby and manifold, higher compression, bit of porting perhaps, a nice camshaft, set of extractors and a nice exhaust. annnndd it will prolly still go slow cause its a 1.3L pushrod engine, but it will definately be better than before! (stocko fuel pump will be fine...its only 1.3L!!)

 

also how do you expect to learn how to change a camshaft if you don't ever do it the first time? buy a manual and follow the directions. i have the toyota K motor manual sitting in front of me. its a great little book, hunt one down!

 

and after all, if you blow it up, someone will sell you a whole new engine for like $50.

[B.L.Z.BUB]

cheers bro makes sense. I hated asking. Always get "I know cars" answers.

[anastasios]

you also need to decide on what cam grind to get, whether you want something streetable or you go for something bigger, which will then need supporting mods, so if you decide to port the head then you have to match your extractors, and say you choose a big cam with power in the top end then you should get extractors to suit this.

 

there are many variables take a look at my thread about my 5k and you will see alot of the problems i have had, although it is a bit different to your setup. And even after putting it all together I am still losing compression in cylinder 1 and it is out of my capabilities to fix, so will have to go to a workshop to diagnose what is going wrong.

 

So what I am trying to say is, get someone to do it all properly for you just once, instead of f@$king around, I am up to my 4th headgasket and the engine hasn't ran for more than say 2 days.

[B.L.Z.BUB]

you also need to decide on what cam grind to get, whether you want something streetable or you go for something bigger, which will then need supporting mods, so if you decide to port the head then you have to match your extractors, and say you choose a big cam with power in the top end then you should get extractors to suit this.

 

there are many variables take a look at my thread about my 5k and you will see alot of the problems i have had, although it is a bit different to your setup. And even after putting it all together I am still losing compression in cylinder 1 and it is out of my capabilities to fix, so will have to go to a workshop to diagnose what is going wrong.

 

So what I am trying to say is, get someone to do it all properly for you just once, instead of f@$king around, I am up to my 4th headgasket and the engine hasn't ran for more than say 2 days.

Yeah as i suspected its probably better to get professionals to do it. Cheers. Maybe try this stuff out myself on my next project that wont be my daily. Then i can ass it up as much as i want.

[philbey]

The exhaust is easy and has no real issues getting it done with out the other mods.

 

Carby, a nikki upgrade with stock cam would probably be fine too.

 

I would go

 

Exhaust

Carb

Cam.

 

Putting a Cam in first would just be silly, I'm sure you understand why.

 

Removal of the Cam is actually fairly straightforward in the K engine, even though at first glance it wouldn't appear so.

 

- Rocker cover off

- rods and lifters out

- drop sump

- pull off timing cover

- remove dizzy

- remove timing chain

- something else... (i forget exactly what stops the cam from floating)

- pull cam out.

 

The only real thing you can screw up is re-timing the cam and crank, but following the steps in a manual, it is very very easy.

[seabiscuit]

Come on! Drink some concrete. :) Do the mods!!!! We're not Hyundai drivers.

 

I'd say camshaft would be the only mod suitable for a workshop to do instead of you as I myself

don't like "playing" with the vital organs of the engine - only the limbs that can magically be replaced without

costing well... a limb.

 

As for the order... Cam is the biggest power improvement, but will suffer without the other mods being done.

Whichever costs the most would be the best option to go for first.

 

Carby: depending on what you get, can cost very little or very expensive. If it's your daily, I'd recommend

getting it tuned right after you put it on (which is the easy part). Have you thought about going straight for

the carb you want, rather than a nikki? Might as well not waste the money/time on putting on something

that will only be removed in the future. 32/32 Weber is good. 28/36 DCD is VERY good, but they are really

hard to source and probably won't be cheap. 32/36 is cheapest and easiest, but not the best option as they

are a tad too big. Down-jet them and they are still quite good, though.

 

Cam: (copied from FAQ) Alot of people have favorite cams for the 4K, debate can get pretty intense, so I'll

list all the common ones. The 20-60 described above is still fairly good, makes more torque than any other

(useful) cam profile I can find, and still peaks at 6500rpm. My favorite is my CE701 (25-65 270 degrees adv

dur, 0.398" lift) by Camshaft Engineering in Coorparoo, I think this gives a nice balance of LOTS of torque and

good strong top end, with peak power at 7500rpm. My KE25 with this cam does over 200km/h and can drive

up most hills in 5th. Tighe Cams do this profile too, the Tighe 113 has 0.400" lift, the Tighe 104 has 0.423" lift.

 

Exhaust: Does it need explaining? :P Although I suggest 1 3/4". I have a 2" in my car and it's a bit

too loud (for my liking).

 

Headwork is something that you should consider also. Raising the compression is a great way to make the

extra fuel from your other modifications really go bang. If you upgrade the cam, raising the compression is

a really good idea.

 

Should be enough how-to there. The only way to do it is to get your head under the bonnet and have a stab.

Internet forums are for only when you get stuck with a problem and showing off your pride and joy to folk

other than in your street.

Edited April 1, 2010 by seabiscuit

[Evan G]

"The 20-60 described above is still fairly good, makes more torque than any other

(useful) cam profile I can find, and still peaks at 6500rpm"

 

so no point upgrading cam if your not gonna upgrade the carby (maybe a slightly bigger jets)

[Felix]

Best thing to do would be buy another motor (4k or 5k) and an engine stand. You can then tinker to your hearts content and when your new motor is ready swap it in over a lazy weekend.

 

Setting a cam up is easy if you follow a manual.

 

If you want to do up a head, strip it down so only the valves are in it (springs and retainers removed and numbered), and give it to a machine shop. Get them to skim it and give the valves a 3 angle job. Should only cost 100-150 dollars. Reassemble it yourself, you'll save in labour and learn more in the process.

 

In the meantime do the extractors and exhaust. Keep the exhaust under 2 inches.

 

Avoid the 32/36 DGV carbs.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Felix

[B.L.Z.BUB]

Awesome thanks guys that clarifies things up a lot. I figured I could do the cam but I was worried about timing it right, I suppose budget will dictate whether I do it myself.

 

I have hopefully sold a car so I will have my garage back soon. Getting another engine, even if just to learn sounds like a fantastic idea. I wanted to fill my garage with another project but I should prob stick to just one for now

 

Is keeping the exhaust under 2 inches purely performance orientated? Or just less of a wank factor? I didnt want look at me loud just nice tone that doesnt sound like a fart.

 

As always, much appreciated.

[KENut]

Is keeping the exhaust under 2 inches purely performance orientated? Or just less of a wank factor?

 

Both. It is only 1.3 litres after all, 2 inch is big enough for engines much larger.

As the exhaust gas gets further along the pipe it cools down, shrinking as it cools. This basically makes it harder to move, as the velocity drops. So a smaller exhaust keeps the gas speed up and gets it out the end of the pipe faster.

[springersrolla]

i got a 2" exhaust with extractors and single muffler, it sounds great and doesnt seem like ive lost backpressure. quiet idle but sounds good opening up the throttle

[jason12]

About how much have people payed for a workshop to put in a cam (excuding the price of the cam)

[nichy]

buy another 4k.... and pull the cam out of that.... that way you can get it grinded and what not and also learn how to pull it out with out stuffing up your own engine. and have your car on the road too

 

i picked up a working 4k for $50 bucks :thumbsup: took it apart and had a play. learnt a bit was good