Ical Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) The exhaust bolts up. But the Inlet requires an adaptor plate, it can be done. From what i gather the 2tgue efi intake is better to use as it faces the front of the car. I aslo heard that SR20 intake ports match the "t" series head but i have yet to see it yet. Still to be confirmed. Ian. a quick link... http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=6516 Edited January 31, 2013 by Ical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KE25_rolla Posted February 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 no 3tgte intake will not bolt up, exhaust will. get your hands on a 3tgte turbo manifold and a ct26 or 20b?!???,.... can be diegrinded out to fit ignore pollution gear cops wont recognise it all anyway, just attach carbon canister or required cat etc... just talk to nme308 on toymods about turboing a 3tc and have a ball. he ended up running 11s before the bottom end gave up due to big psi, very reliable setup but I have seen NME308's setup and although it looks quite agricultural (no offence intended) it was quite bulletproof, had a lot of engineering thought go into it and worked very well. Kudos to him rather then going the typical nissan twin cam route! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KE25_rolla Posted February 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 The exhaust bolts up. But the Inlet requires an adaptor plate, it can be done. From what i gather the 2tgue efi intake is better to use as it faces the front of the car. I aslo heard that SR20 intake ports match the "t" series head but i have yet to see it yet. Still to be confirmed. Ian. a quick link... http://www.toymods.o...read.php?t=6516 Ian, Still undecided as to whether I use the twin cam 2tgeu head or 3t head. 3tc bottom end is a given at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick E Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 ke-25 rolla 3t crank will fit in a 2t block, 2t block has narrower crankcase skirts than 3t. 3t crank in a2t block you will punch ahole in side of block. 2tg head will fit a 3t block you will,need timing cover, timing chains,chain idle pully,dummy camshaft that drives distributorand fuel pump. if you do this youwill need to knock out the last two cam bearings in the 3t block turn 180 degrees knock back in to stop lost oil pressure. 2t-1600 bore 88.5 mm-1750 3t-1770 bore 88.5-1980. when you adjust the valves in the head if it is off the motor, do it one cam at a time other wise you will bend valaes on overlap cheers mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral4K Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 My KE20 Ran a 2tc for years withe the standard crossmember? Just an assortment of rolla k and celica t mounts as for the gbox crossmember simply turn it round 180 degrees elongate the shifter hole , quick tailshaft mod and your away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KE25_rolla Posted February 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Cheers guys, think I will run the 3TC for ease of things and availability of parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KE20Rally Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 I have a 2TC running 3T internals (small amount of clearancing required) 12:1 pistons and a heap of other mods in my KE20. The crossmember is standard KE20 with modified TA22 engine mounts, gearbox is T50 and the diff housing is TA22 with a TRD LSD. The following mods are a must if you are going to build a high power engine combo: - Dowel your flywheel crank, seen flywheel bolts break, trust me you do not want it to happen! - Rocker locks, high rpm/power will throw the rocker arms off -oil squirter on the bronze distributor gear you get made, I destroyed 2 engines before an elderly gentleman running a 2TC cheetah in Adelaide set me straight! Plus all the other standard engine building stuff that goes along with a strong engine. For parts and advice, you can't go past Tony @ www.theracingstore.com I have no affiliation, I ordered all my engine parts through him and he used to race TE27s in the USA. Cheers, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skellington Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 WOW good 2-3tc info. what kind of power output do you have to be making to start adding dowled FW, rocker locks, and oil squirters? I assume that your 2-3tc's are ran VERY hard in a rally car application. Are these mods specifically for high horsepower NA built engines or shall the same be done for turbo application? Thanks for the great info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KE25_rolla Posted February 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 KE20Rally, I am impressed with your engine build. So many questions, where to start. What size bore do you have, I know the 3t's can go to 89mm but I was thinking 88mm to err on the side of caution. I don't want to risk having a porous block by cutting too far. Intake and exhaust valves sizes. Do you run double valve springs or a stiff single? Standard rods or forged / lightened? Have any of the parts been balanced / lightened? What does the engine rev to comfortably and what is the powerband like? What is the idle like? What size carbs? Standard oil pump & water pump safe to run? How do you find the setup in the 20? I notice it is sitting quite hard up against the firewall. I assume the standard T mounts will have it positioned in the same position. The carbs look like they only just clear the booster? What is the weight distribution and handling like? Being a rally car I imagine it must be setup quite well. Any ideas on what sort of hp this set up is producing? Sorry for all the questions but it is the only way to learn! If there is information there you don't want to divulge please feel free to disregard. Cheers, Cam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KE20Rally Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 WOW good 2-3tc info. what kind of power output do you have to be making to start adding dowled FW, rocker locks, and oil squirters? I assume that your 2-3tc's are ran VERY hard in a rally car application. Are these mods specifically for high horsepower NA built engines or shall the same be done for turbo application? Thanks for the great info. Rocker locks and an oil squirter are in my opinion required as soon as you start looking at camshafts/valvetrain mods, I saw a flywheel come off a farly standard 2tg at an autocross event, I would recommend dowling and ARP bolts during any mild rebuild! These mods are all cheap to do in the bigger picture of an engine rebuild and are very cheap insurance! KE20Rally, I am impressed with your engine build. So many questions, where to start. What size bore do you have, I know the 3t's can go to 89mm but I was thinking 88mm to err on the side of caution. I don't want to risk having a porous block by cutting too far. ****** Mine is 89mm with approx 80 thou wall thickness in the bores (measured after boring!) I would recommend 88 mm, then you have room for a rebuild if ever required Intake and exhaust valves sizes. Do you run double valve springs or a stiff single? ****1mm oversize valves and deshrouded, everyone I have spoken to has recommended this as people who have tried aftermarket valve seats have had them fall out, double springs, couldn't tell you what pressure, again, tony @ the racing store is your man! Standard rods or forged / lightened? *****Eagle standard length rods, mainly for the reliability and as a plus, they clear the 2T block (still had to remove some material from the bottom of the bore though!) Have any of the parts been balanced / lightened?***** Had the rotating assembly balanced, didn't stress about lightening the crank What does the engine rev to comfortably and what is the powerband like? What is the idle like? ****I have built this engine with 2 Cam specs, the first one was a Crower cam large duration cam (can't remember the exact specs) this made ~145rwhp and reved cleanly to 8500 (I later found out it went to 9000 a few times on the dyno!) however this was shortlived due to the distributor drive gear failing (hence previous mention of oil squirter and bronze gear) we then went to a schneider cam http://schneidercams.com/296F2TC3TC-1-1.aspx and this produced 135rwhp but a much larger torque down low at exactly the rpm range schneider quote of 3500-7500 making it far more driveable than the Crower cam, idle is a little lumpy, but hey, it's a race car! What size carbs? *****Carbs are 45dcoe webers, 38mm chokes and jetted to suit race fuel, this setup will struggle on 98! Standard oil pump & water pump safe to run? Oil pump is standard, but brand new, I was running a 3tgte pump, but we thought this may have been an issue with stripped cam gears. wter pump is also standard, no issue so far with a 3 core radiator! How do you find the setup in the 20? I notice it is sitting quite hard up against the firewall. I assume the standard T mounts will have it positioned in the same position. The carbs look like they only just clear the booster? ******* Handling is pretty good,spent a few dollars to make it work well, but it actually understeers on tarmac due to the soft rear end! could always do with less weight but I am actually on the class limit now, What is the weight distribution and handling like? Being a rally car I imagine it must be setup quite well.*****as above, bilstein shocks all round, although trhe T18 brakes are at their limit, brake mods are next! Any ideas on what sort of hp this set up is producing?**** as above., I have made 145 and 135rwhp, i think with efi setup (on the horizon as I don't have the balls to push hard with the current setup!) we would be pushing up towards 150rwp with the current cam/pistons, I want to build a staged injection and plenum setup! Sorry for all the questions but it is the only way to learn! If there is information there you don't want to divulge please feel free to disregard. No stress, I wish I had more info (particularly oil squirter setup) I would have saved thousands as I rebuilt this 3 times! 1 thing about building engines, don't take shortcuts to save a few dollars, buy as many new parts as possible like lifters, cam, pully, rods,oil pump etc as it will pay you back in a reliable engine package. Cheers, Cam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KE20Rally Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Found the Crower Cam http://www.crower.com/camshafts/toyota-3tc-4-cyl-cam-7221.html Forgot to mention, always use a ZDDP additive like this http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=CC&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=159 Full bottle for break in, then half with every oil change! Cheers, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 G'day Pete, have you bought anything from www.theracingstore.com lately? Can't see any 3TC parts when browsing through their website and the Engine Parts category is emtpy. Tried emailing them but no response. I'm after a rocker arm collar lock (intake side). Found the Crower Cam http://www.crower.co...l-cam-7221.html Forgot to mention, always use a ZDDP additive like this http://www.compperfo...roduct_Code=159 Full bottle for break in, then half with every oil change! Cheers, Pete Found the Crower Cam http://www.crower.co...l-cam-7221.html Forgot to mention, always use a ZDDP additive like this http://www.compperfo...roduct_Code=159 Full bottle for break in, then half with every oil change! Cheers, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KE25_rolla Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 G'day Pete, have you bought anything from www.theracingstore.com lately? Can't see any 3TC parts when browsing through their website and the Engine Parts category is emtpy. Tried emailing them but no response. I'm after a rocker arm collar lock (intake side). Bruce, I have also had no response from them, nor can I find any 3TC stuff on their website. BRD do have the rocker locks. http://brdracing.com/3tc_valvetrain.htm You can also try psiracing.com or paradiseracing.com 3TCgarage forums should also be able to point you in the right direction. Speak with BOBLOOK or NME308. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KE25_rolla Posted March 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Bruce, another good source. http://www.euroexportinc.com/store/3tc/valve-train-components/toyota-2tc-3tc-rocker-arm-shaft-collars-10014.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Bruce, another good source. http://www.euroexpor...lars-10014.html That's where I got my set of rocker arm collar locks, but one of them broke when I was fitting it on. It was tighter than the others and I forced it a little and it broke. Bit annoying, since I just want to bolt the head on and get the engine going (rockers bolt down with the head). I sent a couple of emails to euroexport to purchase another one but they were ignored. I reckon since it's a small time sale he can't be bothered posting one. Here's my experience with the three main 3TC parts dealers in the USA: I've order online with euroexport before for an adjustable timing gear and chromoly pushrods and the transaction went smoothly. The communication is poor though and it's hard to get a straight answer, with a two word response. Accepts paypal, which makes the payment easy. Postage can be with USPS priority mail international, which seems to be one of the cheapest shipping methods from the USA to Australia. BRD racing has poor communication as well with two word answers and unable to answer queries properly. Email based orders. Doesn't take paypal. Only accepts moneygram or western union as payment for overseas buyers, so it's a bit risky. Paradiseracing has actually got good communication. Able to make recommendations based on your setup, e.g camshaft and induction etc. Feels like your communicating with someone whose had experience with 3TC engines. Email based orders for overseas buyers, since their online ordering is dated. Doesn't accept paypal, and only accepts credit card for overseas buyers, so I wasn't keen on giving my credit card details. Also shipping is through Fedex, which puts the total cost up a bit (thinks USPS is a bit slow when claiming for lost postage). so I'm on the lookout for other alternatives for future purchases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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