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Toothed Trigger Wheel

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Trigger wheel arrived, so testing soon !

Cheers Banjo

Edited by Banjo

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So the 36:1 toothed trigger wheel for the 4K engine arrived, & is now fitted to my 5K engine.

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The 36:1 toothed wheel will fit 3K, 4K, & 5K crankshaft pulleys, as the mounting points are identical on each.  The 3K & 4K crankshaft pullies, are about 110mm O.D., whereas the 5K crankshaft pully is about 145mm O.D.  The toothed wheel is 155mm O.D. so sits nicely on the 5K pulley, with the teeth clear of the pulley edge, as seen in the above pic.

The toothed wheel, will bolt straight up to the 3K & 4K pullies, but has to be spaced on the 5K pulley.  My 5K crankshaft pulley is dished, to take additional pullies,  & has a harmonic balancer built into it, so the toothed wheel will crush the harmonic rubber, if bolted up, without a spacer. The centre bolt also needs a spacer behind the toothed wheel, as there is a gap there to the crankshaft pulley, of about14-15mm.  Likewise, the 4 off 8mm x 1.25M mounting bolts, will need to be about 35mm long, & need spacer tubes behind the toothed wheel.  I'm actually going to use manifold studs, that happen do be available, in that exact size.  Makes it a lot easier to assembly, than with bolts, & spacers behind the toothed wheel.

This 36:1 toothed trigger wheel, is laser cut from 6mm thick plate, rather than being a machined one, which cost a lot more, to manufacture.

Considering it is laser cut, it is of good quality.  I set it up with a piece of clamped metal near the teeth, & measured the eccentricity, & lateral run-out, & it was much less than 1mm out.

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The best & easiest point, to mount the Hall tooth sensor, is off the K engine block A.C. bracket mounting points, just around the corner.  You could make a fancy one, that was mounted off the "timing chain cover", but at this stage, that is a lot of work, & will have to wait until another day, when the timing chain cover is off for another reason.

Last night, I temporarily hooked up a Honda Hall effect sensor, I got on ebay. I used one of these previously, for counting the starter teeth on the flywheel, & it worked well.

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I cranked the engine over, without spark plugs, & was greeted with a clean stream of pulses from the Hall sensor, via an opto-coupler & an LED, on a little board, that also produces a 0-5 volt square wave pulse train, for the Speeduino ECU input.

Here is a good general video about crank & cam toothed wheel sensors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW0ENqcxNSg

Now I know it all works, I'll take the toothed wheel off, & paint it, as being bare mild steel, it won't take long to rust, in our Qld. weather.

Cheers Banjo

 

Edited by Banjo
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That looks great, the toothed wheel turned out better than I would have thought being laser cut too. 

But the efi conversion is certainly coming along, should be enough to set up the efi now

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Found some manifold studs late yesterday, that were exactly the correct size & length, for attaching the 36:1 toothed wheel, to the 5K crankshaft pulley.

 

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8mm  M1.25  38mm long.

The pic below, shows them fitted with some thread locker, in the pulley threads.

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Four (4) off 35mm OD thick 1/2" washers,  Araldited together, made a perfect 9-10mm deep spacer, between the back of the toothed wheel, & the original washer face on the crankshaft pulley.

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That creates a gap of about 10mm between, between the back edge of the toothed wheel,  & the crankshaft pulley V belt edge flange.

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It is important, that there is no ferrous material, very close to the teeth on the trigger wheel, if the best signal is to be produced from the sensor. This is not an issue, when this wheel is used, with a 3K or 4K crankshaft pulley, as they are only have a 110mm O.D., & the teeth are well clear from any surrounding ferrous metal, of the pulley.

I found a website for for a USA manufacturer of trigger wheels, that suggests a clearance gap between the  end of the tooth & the face of the Hall sensor, of 3-5 thou, per inch of diameter of the wheel.  For this particular wheel, that works out about 0.46mm - 0.76mm clearance.

So I assembled it all, & adjusted the sensor position, to one tooth, with a 0.5mm feeler guage.  I then rotated the wheel, with the feeler across the face of the sensor, & it neither got looser or tighter, so I'm very happy with the eccentricity of the trigger wheel.  Thanks Danel !

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The bracket that the Hall sensor is attached to, should not be made of ferrous material, so the magnetic flux to the sensor, is not diverted or "drained", by nearby ferrous material.  I have made my bracket out of a thick piece of thick aluminium, which you can spot in the pic above.

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This trigger wheel setup, is critical, as to whether the result is a flawless & reliable EFI performance or not, so I am making sure, at this point, that it is as good as I can get it.

After it is assembled, I'll crank the engine over, & view the sensor pulse output, with an oscilloscope, to see how clean the pulses are.

Cheers Banjo

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Banjo
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The toothed trigger wheel, can basically be mounted in four different rotational positions, which places the "missing tooth" section of the wheel, in four different positions, relative to TDC.  

All ECU's settings, have a "crank angle trigger" setting, that can usually be adjusted anywhere from 0-360 deg C, if the toothed wheel is  on the crankshaft.  However, most tuners suggest placing it, at around 70 - 90 deg ATDC, so it has plenty of time to do all the calculations, before the next firing.

I placed my tooth wheel, in a position, I determined, to be appropriate, then rotated the crank, until the toothed wheel "missing tooth" section was level with the Hall sensor. The ECU recognises the first tooth after the missing tooth section, as the synch point. In my case, it is the rising edge of that first tooth.

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I then when around to the other end of the engine, where I have a large accurate degree wheel on the flywheel, & the angle the crank was in, was 102 deg ATDC.

DSC01521sm.jpg.1572f1fcdcfbf7d0418f341dc60c581a.jpg

Very happy with that !   Very happy with the whole trigger wheel in general.

Suggest, if anyone is interested, in obtaining a trigger wheel for their K series engine, then send Danel a PM, as he posted earlier in this thread, on page 1.

So next task is to start testing the other various sensor inputs on the Speeduino.

P.S.  Anyone else here on Rollaclub forum, playing or running a Speeduino ECU at present ?

Cheers Banjo

 

 

Edited by Banjo

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Nicely done. For what its worth my bmw trigger wheel has its missing teeth 82deg btdc so 78 will work perfect!

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Whatever the value is doesn't really matter... other than the fact that's your max advance because no ECU can see into the future 😉

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So with the tooth wheel sorted, it's time to check & calibrate all the other inputs, the Speeduino needs to run.

Coolant Temperature:

I built a coolant sensor, using a precision NTC thermistor probe, I have, with an R25 value of 10K ohms.  All of the temp sender units, I've collected over the years, are single wire ones, using the engine block & the chassis earthing system, for the return of the "resistance" circuit.  I wanted to make all the sensors feeding into the Speeduino, to be two (2) wire, so that there is only one earthing point for them all, back within the Speeduino PCB itself.

I grabbed an old sensor, & drilled out all the  sensor element, until it was a clean bare brass shell.  Then I inserted the insulated thermistor probe, & glued it in with Aradite.

DSC01529sm.jpg.e92ae19045bcc7a6a55d7c2a03644e1b.jpg

 Then to calibrate in for use with the Speeduino.  The standard "bias" resistor fitted to the Speeduino PCB has a value of 2490 ohms.

That works out well,  as the 10K ohm thermistor, has resistance values of 

20 deg C (19.9) = 12.566K ohms

60 deg C (59.9) = 2.5K ohm

100 deg C (100.5) = 0.669K ohm

So the mid point of the range we are wanting the readings to be most accurate, is 60 deg C, where the resistance of 2.5K ohm,  is almost exactly the same as the bias resistor, at 2.49K ohm.  That should provide good accuracy.

I plugged all the three temp points & their corresponding ohm values, into the settings, in TS, & burnt it to the Speeduino processor.

As the coolant measurement, will be in the 80-95 deg C range, most of the time, I decided to check it with the only standard high temperature, I have handy, which is boiling water.

Off to the kitchen to "borrow" my wife's electric kettle.  I suspended the probe inside, & it read 20 deg C, which was the ambient temp here this morning.  Then I turned on the kettle & watched the temperature rise through the range in Tuner Studio, until it stopped at 100 deg C, just as it boiled. 

DSC01539sm.jpg.e50f18efc4b93cf074c17f16933ffb85.jpg 

So fitted it to the engine, at the highest point of the water coolant system.

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Next  sensor will be the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor), which  I've just pulled off my 7K EFO setup.

P.S.   I had been concerned that I was going to have to reroute the coolant drain cock,  located directly below the water pump,  whose removal was just blocked by the addition of the Toothed  Wheel.

However, I discovered if I rotated the engine, so that the "missing tooth", was opposite the end of the drain cock, it was possible to remove the drain cock, with a socket.

DSC01535sm.jpg.c361db99521e4555f3e00cb233af8dd0.jpg 

Cheers Banjo

 

 

 

Edited by Banjo
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Here's a few pics of the solid bracket I built, to mount the Honda Civic camshaft position sensor, which works extremely well, with the  3K/4K/5K toothed trigger wheel.

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The bracket, simply bolts onto the mounting points on the block, used for attaching the A/C compressor mounting bracket.

DSC01551sm.jpg.dc9c49fbdafedda09163fc0173722b2b.jpg

DSC01552sm.jpg.7a4c74c06cf198739c4f16a93fab2af2.jpghttps://www.ebay.com.au/itm/37840-

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The Honda Civic sensor is available on ebay, at a reasonable price.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Camshaft-Position-Sensor-37840-RJH-006-Fits-For-2001-2005-Honda-Civic-1-7L-AU/154005829655?hash=item23db767817:g:iM8AAOSwoLFej-3Q&frcectupt=true

The plate onto which the Honda Hall sensor is attached, is made of 4mm thick aluminium plate, so there is no ferrous material near the sensor, that could diminish the magnetic field between the toothed wheel & sensor.  The  2 x 6mm bolts clamping this aluminium plate to the bracket, are slightly slotted, so the gap between the tooth tip, & sensor face can be easily adjusted, with a feeler guage, to 0.5mm gap. 

If anyone wants to get hold of a Honda camshaft or crankshaft position sensor, & do something similar to above, then the three wire connection details for these sensors, can be found, at the following link.   https://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/honda/1.7L/how-to-test-the-crank-sensor-1

I've had the engine running, & have a very stable & clean stream of trigger pulses coming from the sensor.

The Hall Effect sensor visible in the very last pic, on the timing chain cover, is so I can feed a camshaft position pulse to the Speeduino, so the 5K can be sequentially controlled.

Cheers Banjo

 

 

Edited by Banjo

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Lovely!   I've just returned from the Botanic Gardens chasing my cuttings forcing cabinet as one probe seems to give ridiculous readings. I measured the resistances and voltages produced and found the dud one to be out. It was showing 39deg in the gravel on the bottom of the cabinet while it was cold and wet.

So I check Rollaclub over lunch & what do i find? Here's Banjo with the readings and temperatures of the two-wire thermistor thingy I have in my hand!  Well done that man!

So the dud probe reads 0.3 to 0.2mV and 5.9Kohm, shows 40.4deg

The probe I put right next to it reads 0.1 to 0.0mV and 10.2Kohm, shows 24.6deg

The top probe reads 0.1mV and 8.2Kohm, showing 29.7deg

I'll find out what it is I need to buy and replace that one. How do they go wrong Banjo?  Mechanical flex changing wire resistance? 

Anyway, now you've solved my problem... back to the electronic K motor!

 

Tardis exterior running.jpg

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While getting this 5K all cleaned up, for the Speeduino setup,   I pulled off the mechanical fuel pump,  that I had experimented with, as a camshaft sync pulse source.  I replaced it with a blanking plate, I had previously made up out of sheet metal.  However, it is not thick enough, & after about 20 minutes running, there was a trickle of oil seeping out of it.

I've not got the resources, nor the time to make one out of something thicker, 4/5/6mm steel plate.  I've looked on the net but can't find anyone, selling these blanking plates for the Toyota K series engine.  I seem to remember years ago, I came across a website in Europe, (maybe Holland or Finland ?) that made a number of performance accessories for the 3K/4K/5K engines, but I couldn't find them. I remember they had a blanking plate.

Lynx here in Australia sell various blanking plates, but not one for the K Series.  I did notice, that there is one listed that is suitable for the Toyota FJ40 & FJ60 Landcruiser series, that looks like the right shape. The K series engine, stud mounting centre dimension, for the fuel pump, is 44mm. 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FOR-Toyota-FJ40-FJ60-Series-F-2F-engine-Fuel-Pump-Blank-off-Plate-/252824883703

Does anyone know, where you can get one of these, or whether, I am lucky enough that the Landcruiser one may fit.  Maybe someone has one, they are prepared to sell ?

Cheers Banjo

 

Edited by Banjo

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I've used the "Redline" holden 6/small block v8 ones in the past. They are a fair bit bigger than needed but seal no problems. 

I've got one I've made years ago on my 4k in my 11, you're welcome to it. If I end up putting the K back in for re-registering I'll just cut up another. 

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Thanks Stuart !  I'll look into it.   I knew someone else would have come this same issue previously.

Cheers  Banjo

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Hi Stu,             

Quote

I've used the "Redline" holden 6/small block v8 ones in the past. They are a fair bit bigger than needed but seal no problems.

Thanks for that !   I bought one off ebay, & it arrived today.

ebay listing for blanking plate

Works perfectly.  The mounting stud/bolt centres are exactly the same, so there must be some standards, between mechanical fuel pump manufacturers.  The plate is a little bit bigger, but I left the original pump "spacer block" off, & just bolted it directly up to the block, with gasket that came with the blanking plate.

Looks great !

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It is now the shiniest part of the engine, so maybe I'll have to get some metal polish, from SCA, & spend an hour of the "rocker cover", so this blanking plate doesn't feel alone.

Cheers Banjo

Edited by Banjo

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Careful!!.... it's a slippery slope when you start polishing alloy 🙄😂

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