Ke15 Sl Sprinter Thread...

[Trev]

I just took mine apart and what would you know, It is pressure operated, Thanks to twincam.org for telling me the age bigport sandwich plate is temp operated when I was looking into oil feeds for the turbo and it might surprise some people to know that one of the ones that had said that was JP, I am sick of getting told something and then relaying it on to others to find out it is bullshit, No wonder the net is full of crap.

[Felix]

I am sick of getting told something and then relaying it on to others to find out it is bullshit, No wonder the net is full of crap.

 

LOL. The internet.... one of the greatest forms of misinformation, ever. But then again it is good, problem is sorting through all the crap.

 

How's it going anyway Cam, get it all sorted? You should just do the quick and dirty solid lifter conversion like I did, costs sfa. Mine did 4 years of daily driving without an issue and cost me nothing. :wink: You could always consider gutting (and dropping the pushrod cup to the base) Holden red motor hydraulic lifters with either the shorter 3k pushrods or better still k pushrods.

[TheNOBBLER[RL]]

JP? hopefully not me!

 

Cars coming along great Cameron , sounds like the new engine will be great! Will be keeping an eye on this thread.

 

JP

[Trev]

JP? hopefully not me!

 

Cars coming along great Cameron , sounds like the new engine will be great! Will be keeping an eye on this thread.

 

JP

 

No, JP from twincam.

[Hiro Protagonist]

I just took mine apart and what would you know, It is pressure operated, Thanks to twincam.org for telling me the age bigport sandwich plate is temp operated when I was looking into oil feeds for the turbo and it might surprise some people to know that one of the ones that had said that was JP, I am sick of getting told something and then relaying it on to others to find out it is bullshit, No wonder the net is full of crap.

 

I've always assumed that they were pressure-operated, pretty sure my Gregorys manual for the 102 mentions it being pressure-opened and even has an exploded view of the sandwich plate and the spring/banjo bolt

[philbey]

Pressure operated would never make sense, because as your oil gets hotter its density reduces and then your pressure will decrease.

 

Which means as you get hotter you're less likely to direct oil via the cooler.

 

(porsche owner here....)

[ke70dave]

Pressure operated would never make sense, because as your oil gets hotter its density reduces and then your pressure will decrease.

 

Which means as you get hotter you're less likely to direct oil via the cooler.

 

(porsche owner here....)

 

yeah i can't work it out, on the surface it doense seem to make much sense. h

 

also doesnt heating oil only effect its viscosicty? not its density? in which case assuming the pump is able to pump the same volume of oil the pressure shouldnt change with temperature?

 

i assume the drop in oil pressure with temperature can be attributed to the oil pump having more "trouble" pumping a more viscous fluid (hot oil) around? and thus the pressure is lower?

 

though i guess they are using the increased oil pressure with revs to allow oil to flow the cooler.

 

i have a 20V sandwhich plate at home, i should see whats inside of it..

[Hiro Protagonist]

Pressure operated would never make sense, because as your oil gets hotter its density reduces and then your pressure will decrease.

 

Which means as you get hotter you're less likely to direct oil via the cooler.

 

(porsche owner here....)

 

In a restricted volume the expansion of the oil due to heat will cause a pressure increase, not decrease. Besides, the density variations of liquids in relation to temperature is negligible compared to gases (for instance, the density of water only decreases about 5% between 0 and 100 degrees C), so all you need to do is have a pressure switch which opens at a significantly lower pressure than what your hot oil pressure will be, and the density argument ceases to be a factor

[philbey]

First up dave, Kinematic viscosity is a function of density, so as the density changes this also affects the kinematic viscosity. Dynamic viscosity changes but doesn't drop off as fast.

 

Secondly, hiro, You're not talking about a fixed volume. Gear pumps are positive displacement but they are a clearance fit only. As your oil gets hotter, the effective sealing of the gear pump is reduced as the viscosity changes and it's not pumping as effectively, so that's partially why your oil pressure will be lower as it's hotter.

 

The point I was making is that you want to pass to the oil cooler as the oil heats up. Counterintuitively, using a pressure circuit will be less likely to bypass to the cooler as the oil gets hotter.

 

Porsches run a secondary cooler loop and they're thermostatically controlled, not pressure control. And seriously, as the oil temp rises the oil pressure gauges in mine get frighteningly low. 911's run 2 thermostats as well, one for the primrary cooler and one on the secondary cooler.

 

EDIT - that isn't to say that there aren't pressure circuits set up this way.... Just that it'd much much smarter to run it off Temp!

 

EDIT EDIT not that it matters we're getting off topic sorry Cam.

Edited June 30, 2010 by philbey

[Trev]

Can We get this moved to it's own topic and is there any way I can measure the spring tension to get the opening pressure of the valve?

[camerondownunder88]

Hi All,

Just a quick reply before bed.

 

Note on oil cooler thing. WHy use stock go get a HKS one..LOL

 

But oil will reduce in density as it gets hotter. I know I jsut finished learning this at UNI..lol (yes all I am at uni atm studying engineering.)

 

anyway back to topic.

 

Got cylinder head back today looks nice as but I have now see the damage poorly managed coolant and anti corrosion stuff can do :( my head is so badly corroded in parts not needing weld but would be nice to remove pitting on the face but due to being shaved before we couldn't grind it all out. So when this goes back together will be keeping an eye on the coolant temp..LOL But hey have an over flow bottle now so it is at least keeping the coolant in the engine..LOL

 

But the head is as follows now:

Stripped

Cleaned

Crack tested

skimmed flat again

exhaust and inlet ports de bured and slightly reshaped to flow better

4 yes 4 angle valve grind

reassembled and ready to run

 

:) Was cheap to so happy about cost.

 

But when I got home to reinstall it I noticed I got a 3K head gasket with the head :( So waiting on my engine builder now to get me a 5K one.

 

As for my cam lifters popped them all out last night and looked at my lobes. I think my eyes were playing tricks on me. Cam has the little like oil mark triangles where lifter doesn't touch the cam to make it spin so they must be turning. But will still replace one lifter due to it looking like crap..LOL

 

My engine builder told me today he can re-grind lifters and to bring old ones to him any time so I have 1.5 sets of 3F lifters now so can stop looking to buy more at RIDICULS prices..LOL

 

But in other KE15 news I got annoyed that I didn't have a head gasket so I started getting into dash to find fault of intermittent electrics.

 

First radio. FOund lose speaker connection. Fixed and AM 4KQ is on loud and proud again :)

 

Secondly found enough tape to repair and float the titanic again under dash holding nothing in spots one wire here etc. Pulled all out under dash much neater now found one loose earth on fuse box and main cause of loss of electrical is loose connector on back on gauge cluster so have to remove this weekend to sort out also.

 

So still achieved lots and hoping when motor gets back together it just works .....

 

Cheers

Cameron

 

P.S. I shall post later about my new parts for the 5K I will build asap now and for a hint to all it is ignition parts :)

[camerondownunder88]

Hi,

Well it has been a while since I last updated but hey better than nothing..LOL

 

Well over the last 6 months I have had a pretty good run of the KE15. Till about December.

 

First off I made a mistake and well kinda backed into a pole WITH my drivers door...open....Yes a KE1X front drivers door at about 5km/h will bend 180 degrees and touch the front drivers side-wheel :( not happy. Busted my good restored teflon pined hinges, dinted the door, busted door weld and more :( Got so angry first though was hammer..LOL and in a few minutes had the door closing again and looking better. panel beated some of it out but looking for a new door as this one is now good for parts as it twisted :( So fault one.

 

Second thing Drove car all the way to the north side for christmas dinner with family. on the way up there a rock busted my radiator. But due to sunny QLD not being so sunny and it pouring rain I did over 250km with a busted radiator and car kept cool and held most of the water had to top up half way in trip. So mega annoyed at that radiator got flushed and re-condishined only 6 months ago :(

 

So got angry and KE15 now sits in my car port. Also did economy of car on that long trip not the best and ummm used about 3L of oil :( this engine needs a rebuild.

 

So where to start. radiator. I figured I can drive sprinter a lot more oil seems to use a lot then not use a lot so thinking it is getting hot and coming out the engine dump pipe from rocker cover can smell oil when witting still in drive through etc.

 

So I want to do this properly. I am sick of kinda doing stuff then finding I have to fix it in a few months or it just never being right so I did a list of what I want in the KE15 radiator.

 

List:

original looking as possible

-3 row core

-moved inlet for up right K motor down track

-outlet moved and made from solid tube like original KE1X items were.

-more clearance between engine and radiator for internal fan (3 row also becomes 10mm thicker so BIG issue this one only had 30mm from radiator with engine with KE2X rad)

-diameter of inlet and outlet increased as KE1X radiators stock ones are tiny.

 

So first step find a radiator......BING...got one. Started looking at my place and found I have 3 KE1X radiators all in different state of repair. So got the one with best tanks but worst core that was the project radiator. Wish I took a pic of it but didn't.

 

Next was to get a quote on moving inlet and outlet and making them bigger, 3 row core etc etc....DONE. Found a shop with an old guy running it and he knew about the issues KE1X suffer from lack of room etc. And he could do me a 3 row core :) DONE.

 

Next trick more room in engine bay. First off below is a picture of the side of a stock radiator where the side metal support that ties the top and bottom tank together is weld on. The pic is of the bottom tank where this wraps around and is weld on. Can see how it is folded over the front of the radiator.

 

Now this side part is where the bolts hold the radiator into the car. So I though when un-weld to install new core why not flatten out the front side of the support and slide the whole radiator in them forwards 10mm away from motor and then weld them on. So I did. Pic below of this:

(above notice bottom mount on left is bent up. KE1X had this stock notice aftermarket KE1X rad on right has straight outlet. Straight causes alternator clearance issues)

 

EXCELENT more room between motor now and still strong as before. But I still didn't have more room between radiator and motor as the room I gained here was lost with the 3rd row in the core :(

 

So needed more room WITH OUT cutting the KE15. So pulled grill and bumper and front end off looking for room...AH found it. In a KE1X the radiator support is bent in towards the ending with anchor nuts weld on the front side and bolts go through hold radiator to car. So what if I put radiator in-car from the front and use studs to hold radiator out backwards....IT FITS :)

 

Doing this I got the radiator from being recessed about 20 to 30mm behind the front panel of the car to FLUSH. (only went flush so have some clearance from front panel and I can fit KE1X aircon over the front still.

 

Pic below showing me holding radiator not yet bolted in mounted in front of the panel.

 

So below is a photo of it mounted from the front SEE THE ROOM :) can now fit a shrouded thermo fan on the car :)

 

Now with front mounting you can only go so far back as to far will cause the top tank to hit the bar that goes across the top of the car with bonnet release on it etc.

 

Now here is also a pic of the radiator with moved inlet on the top tank. I did this to have longer top hose. WIth 5K in a KE15 top hose was SO short when engine moved it would strain it heaps and even move it on the pipes and cause leaks and not to mention possible rupture down the track. So wanted more rubber for movement. Also needed more room to play with when I upright a K motor in this car and as from above I want to do this right first time.

So here is the picture of moved inlet:

New radiator is the bottom one old is the top. Notice the amount you can move them. I took it right to the edge and made sure it didn't leak. I even had a baffle plate put in here so as water rushes out pipe it hits this and it throws it sideways into radiator through holes and guides it this should help water move through radiator more.

 

You will also note the top radiator has no lip on the pipe to hold the pipe on. I put a small spot weld around it to help but not as good as a full lip. And it seems all my KE1X radiators don't have a lip on the pipes :( So to stop the new pipes falling off I got a lip weld put on the new inlet :) very happy.

 

Now when I mounted the radiator from the front I only had long bolts. I am buying this weekend studs to suit and making brackets and if I can find a place that sells aluminium sheet on the weekend ill mount the thermo fan :) After that I have to find some silicon hoses for radiator and ill be happy and ill install a nice temp gauge.

 

So stay tuned and ill keep this updated and let you know how the temps go after this mod :)

 

Cheers

Cameron

[Trev]

Has this happened since I seen you at the park or was this before hand?

[camerondownunder88]

Blew radator after we met at park :( was a week or two later at christmas :(

 

Cameron

[Trev]

Ok, well let me know if you want a hand to build an engine for it.