4k-c Turbo Build!

[kickn5k]

Rye not Melbourne but Victoria yes.

Hang on, your on the peninsula and I didn't know about it?

 

I've chased RB30 turbo plug gaps as close as .5mm to stop them blowing out spark at big boost(25+psi)!! So .8mm should be fine.

Good to see your ironing out your bugs!!

 

Stu.

[Jaydnisevil]

Its only somewhat recent, we moved into what was our holiday house and are renting out our place in narre warren north.

Slowly getting there mate, there will always be more to do :( :P

 

Plug gaps adjusted, turns out my old ones were 1.1 and the temporary ones I had were (nearest makes no difference) 0.8mm

I tinkered with the timing a tad, restricting and bleeding off air. I found a level where there was no pinging, but it was just gutless in comparison.

Its still too hot for all of this me thinks, hard to test and diagnose. Still need to buy some octane booster and colder plugs. ill try and organize for it to be put on the dyno at some point so I can tune it. My new tafe have a low power dyno, so ill speak to them when I go in next.

 

I'm moving to the little things slowly now as most of the main issues are fixed.

The throttle is still a bit sticky down low, iv taken up the slack which has helped but it needs some work.

 

Still need to restrict that boost source, I changed the location but it didn't really help. I think I saw 13 maybe 14 earlier today.

I need to adjust my idle mixtures so there is no hesitation on take high throttle take off, never used to do that so it will need adjustment.

The mixtures are perfect, the highest I saw was 13.4:1 :)

 

Ohh I replaced the O2 sensor.. After soaking in fuel all night, it came good momentarily but gave up shortly after.

Luckily I had a spare I got from work that I connected up. Feel much more confident in the readings now :)

 

Now the only major problem to come up was the starter; who was on its last legs, decided to give up today. Originally (especially in the heat) it would click and attempt to engage a few times but not turn on. If you continued pushing, you'd get it to come to life. Now there is no more clicking. Ill have to pull it apart and see whats wrong. Hopefully its repairable. I'm more concerned about getting the thing out.. I swore never to take my manifold off again, might get away with just removing the external gate. Fingers crossed.

 

Need a few gaskets to stop small oil leaks from the turbo oil supply joint and from the spark plug cups. Nothing major, just a gradual build up that is displeasing.

 

Other than the above its all coming together :)

Edited February 26, 2012 by Jaydnisevil

[Jaydnisevil]

Starters out and apart, bit of a bastard to get out but not as bad as I had though.

Just needed to drop the down-pipe and the external gate.

:)

[Jaydnisevil]

Starter is back together and in the car.

All I did was take off the solenoid and clean up the high amperage switch. Was quite a lot of crap on the contacts.

Now though there are more confusing issues...

When testing outside the car, there were no issues. It would snap into life every single time I applied power.

In the car I'm getting a crunching noise, and the same issue where it would only start once every 3-15 button pushed.

So that leaves me with a few possibilities..

My most suspicious theory: Wiring not allowing the solenoid to energize correctly (Voltage drop, corroded wiring)

This could explain why there is a grinding noise when it is turning as it may not be correctly engaged, or popping in and out.

Or that because the gear is say hitting the flywheel, it cannot extend enough to give power..

Now I did notice that the bearing at the top of the starter was just shy of being completely buggered, it was hardly free to turn.

I don't know if that increased resistance will stop the teeth twisting a percentage of the time and hence its hitting the flywheel.

 

 

Given it would be much easier to test the first idea, ill just hook up a different trigger straight to 12V and see the success rate of start-up.

Hopefully its just that. Probably should have checked the starter relay first :P Will check when its not pissing down with rain.

 

 

On my test drive with the roads somewhat wet from earlier, I accidentally discovered it spins the rear 215's (around that mark, I can't recall) in second in a straight line :)

Not my intention but good to know the turbo is doing its job :P What I was actually trying to do was determine why it bogs down a little when I go what at low rpm.

Hard to tell given my O2 has just died (More below) Could be a float level thing, could be lack of a pump, ill need to investigate but at least the mid-high is working just fine :)

 

Lastly my replacement (used) O2 sensor just died earlier. It started reading very different to yesterday.. Originally I thought maybe the colder air could be leaning things out, or I didn't have a hose connected.

As I got home to pack up its just flat-lining.. Wayy past 17:1 Looks like ill have to buy another one :(

Lol serves me right for being a cheap shit and wiring in a spare :P

Edited February 27, 2012 by Jaydnisevil

[Jaydnisevil]

Ok spent quite a few hours trying to solve this bloody starter issue.

First things first, the relay seems to operate. I then plugged a test wire into the solenoid. Straight to 12v and of course it worked perfectly every time.

so I did a resistance check tracing it further and further up the system. In the end I was putting 12 volts straight to the relay output which was also working perfectly.

I did however find a fix that seems to help it about 90%, I supplied a direct 12V source to the starter button opposed to the factory 12V supply.

 

I also noted that the resistance of the ground wire was around 5-6 Ohmhs, where as all the other small ones around were 0.1-0.6ohms.

I'm now just about convinced its a gremlin in the wiring, it did this even when it was bog stock.

One curiosity was I checked a terminal on the power board on the driver side foot well, when all but ignition 2 was switched on there was a low resistance to ground. But as soon as Ig2 was switched it had 12volts.

I also noted that the voltage flowing through the starter relay suffered quite a drop, would hold about 9 volts, may have something to do with it as well.

When I have some more time, or if it still is an issue, I will replace that relay with a newer 4pin one and wire in my old ground for it. Should fix things.

 

But its better now.. At least its starting every button push, just lacks power and crunches every now and then.

[Jaydnisevil]

Starters fixed, that 12V supply line worked a treat.

Now trying to solve what I think is an over fuelling issue in first.

Basicly if I give it full throttle from a very low RPM it hesitates. Only really noticeable in first that iv found.

Any-who I reckon its because iv put a jet that's expecting Twice the amount of air to pass by, and given that its incredibly low RPM and doesn't go away till boost kicks in I reckon its too rich.

Iv disconnected my mechanical and vacuum fuel pump.. Figured they were designed for a 3.9L falcon to punch it, could be part of my problem. Well its helped.. Its very hard to tell.

Tomorrow (When its not wet and I can actually load it up without the rears lighting up) ill lean out the low speed circuit and work on restricting how much fuel gets pumped in from the vacuum pump.

I really need a dyno for this shit :P

[Jaydnisevil]

Been quite a while since some photos so I took a couple.

Given my car is now out of rego iv taken the time to fix a few things. The fuel system being one..

I always wanted my fuel pump to be mounted in tank, but couldn't be bothered at the time.

Another reason is when I eventually change the engine I will need a larger supply and return line. I couldn't get it lower than 7psi as is, and its a little higher than Id like for my carby.

 

Anywho Iv taken the tank out of the car, and letting it dry out. Ill be buying yet another fuel pump that I can mount inside.

Eventually when I put a SR in it, ill just use my Bosch pump sequentially so bump the pressure up.

 

 

Very dirty on top :P

 

 

Neither of these will fit through the hole.. I could cut but id rather just get one that will work.

It will fit in the filler neck hole and I could pass it through, but ill see what plan A works out like.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Jaydnisevil

[SLW42]

Wow dude you really like headbutting the wall, the starter issues are a common thing with the 70's and usually swapping relays fixes it either that or swapping starter motors...

 

I read your whole thread and I seen a lot of times taz and Afew other people have tried to help/offer advice and you blew them off..... not cool they have successfully done the turbo k motor thing for awhile..... And had a lot less issues

 

Also another question how did you get away with running no dash pad or anything for so long?

 

And a lot of people have found that using a vl fuel pump as a lift pump and a Bosch 023 as a feed out of a surge tank works fine, but would be overkill on something like this, just putting it out there as a future reference for when you delete the k motor

[Jaydnisevil]

Wow dude you really like headbutting the wall, the starter issues are a common thing with the 70's and usually swapping relays fixes it either that or swapping starter motors...

 

I read your whole thread and I seen a lot of times taz and Afew other people have tried to help/offer advice and you blew them off..... not cool they have successfully done the turbo k motor thing for awhile..... And had a lot less issues

 

Also another question how did you get away with running no dash pad or anything for so long?

 

And a lot of people have found that using a vl fuel pump as a lift pump and a Bosch 023 as a feed out of a surge tank works fine, but would be overkill on something like this, just putting it out there as a future reference for when you delete the k motor

 

The starter issue is fixed now, relay didn't fix as I swapped it out for the one directly next to it.

As for swapping them: if functions perfectly with a direct power supply then that cannot be the cause.

Because of those two things, I wanted to look into it further. I still think those relays have a resistance that's too high for that level of current draw.

~80omhs is quite a bit considering its supposed to act like a switch.

 

Now that's not strictly true, taz is the only one who I had a disagreement with, and his mate just supported his argument.

Actually I listened a few times to people's suggestions, One instance that comes to mind is the use of a SU carby when I was planning for a draw-through set-up.

I listened to mitch and have now moved my fuel pump to an in-tank setup, and will be shortly followed by relocating the pressure reg.

Velekas told me not to have the boost blowing straight down the neck, so I went with a LPG hat.

Yes I have not taken all advice on board, but some of it was not suitable at that time.

 

Taz wanted to me buy a turbo that is unnecessarily large, when I had a CT9 already in my possession.

And I believe I have shown that I was correct in saying a CT9 is a suitable size for a 1.3L. I'm maintaining 15psi, measured at the manifold, and on the free-way it made a lovely turbo noise but was not making boost, just whistling along at -10mmhg. He was adamant that I would run out of puff anywhere near the top end.

 

 

Well to be fair they have taken the simplest path to boost.

Iv started with one thing, the changing to another with lots of modifications in between.

Had I originally started with blow-through, my manifold would not have had to been made, could have just bolted the Webber to the stockie.

Because my set-up was draw-through, I wanted the exhaust path to the turbo to be short to try and help with response. They just used a J-pipe which is fine when your setup is for blowthrough.

 

As I said in an earlier post, I'm doing this just for the experience. Its not a daily drive so there is no rush, it was just a project.

Most of the problems occurred when I changed from one idea to the next.

 

What do you mean "get away with" ?

Yea Iv heard similar, the lift pump alone SHOULD supply enough pressure for this setup. When I put a SR in it, then ill put my 070 back in action as I already have one.

[SLW42]

What I mean by get away with it, it bassically has no dash at all, just a frame with afew dials and switches...... If I was to do that in a ke70 I'd get raped beyond belief by the cops

 

From my experience there is more just the one relay for the starter system I think there is one in one of the kick panels...

 

Yeah I saw all the graphs and shit, and both arguments about the turbo size, but it was other bits and pieces you blew him off I cbf going back through the pages to find it all.....

 

Have you thought about just making a new intake manifold rather than chopping and changing the exsisting one?

[Taz_Rx]

Graphs are like handbags slw, the possessor is always right! :P

[Jaydnisevil]

What I mean by get away with it, it bassically has no dash at all, just a frame with afew dials and switches...... If I was to do that in a ke70 I'd get raped beyond belief by the cops

 

From my experience there is more just the one relay for the starter system I think there is one in one of the kick panels...

 

Yeah I saw all the graphs and shit, and both arguments about the turbo size, but it was other bits and pieces you blew him off I cbf going back through the pages to find it all.....

 

Have you thought about just making a new intake manifold rather than chopping and changing the exsisting one?

 

Ohh yeaa absolutely would lol, but mine is unregistered now, it was on the remaining rego/temp rego when driving on the road.

This was stripped out to be a track car in the future, so most of the interior became unnecessary.

 

I have spoken to Vicroads and they think my best bet would be "Classic Historic" or "street rod" rego.

Because they are both considered club rego, the roadworthy rules are less restrictive.

Classic historic still has to meet certain guidelines, street rod has to pass an inspection.

 

Nahh not just graphs, the proof is in the pudding.

As far as I'm concerned, unless you can supply evidence to support your claim, don't bother arguing the point.

I supplied evidence from other in different circumstances, direct comparisons and finally physical testing myself.

I am managing to maintain 15psi at the manifold throughout the rev range, that's after pressure any drop through the intercooler, piping and carby hat system.

I only planed to run 12-13 manifold psi, but I ran that to prove that there is still enough airflow to supply 15psi to a 1.3L from a CT9.

Ignoring temperature differences, spool characteristics, tapering off etc, 15psi is 15psi regardless of the turbo.

Kinda obvious but if you have a fixed space, 14.7psi above 1atm will yield double the amount of air than normal.

 

 

Well from my memory it was only on the turbo :/ I cannot recall disagreeing about anything else.

He was rather helpful, but his fuel set-up he recommended was for blow-through, as was the carby (Not relevant at the time)

I was already leaning to draw-through due to cost, had I known how much oil it would suck I would have just gone blowthrough to start.

I knew it would suck some, but wow lol.

 

 

Huh? I did make my manifold.

Did you mean start from scratch when I went from draw-through to blow-through.

Because it was a pain in the ass to cut out the head-runner plates :P Had I got them CNC'd yeaa probably would have. Keep in mind iv done most of this in my backyard in a few spare hours every odd month.

[SLW42]

Yeah I realise it was done as a 'this'll be fun till a better motor finds its way into the car', and I realise it started as a draw through setup but when I saw it had been done to be blow through I thought to myself(maybe its just me being anal and over analising shit) instead of making the blow through setup fit the draw through mani, could you have just re made the mani so that it joined up close to the motor so it came up on an angle to ward's the middle of the engine and then to a plate for the webber to sit on, so it would look kinda like this...... Excuse the brackets cbf getting onto paint at this hour :P

 

_

[_] < carby

(( )) < manifold

Motor

 

Like shorten the runners and add more of a bend to them, so it drops the height of the carby down and pulls it away from the turbo?

 

I'll go onto paint tomorrow and show you what I mean and explain it better that way

[Jaydnisevil]

Yeah I realise it was done as a 'this'll be fun till a better motor finds its way into the car', and I realise it started as a draw through setup but when I saw it had been done to be blow through I thought to myself(maybe its just me being anal and over analising shit) instead of making the blow through setup fit the draw through mani, could you have just re made the mani so that it joined up close to the motor so it came up on an angle to ward's the middle of the engine and then to a plate for the webber to sit on, so it would look kinda like this...... Excuse the brackets cbf getting onto paint at this hour :P

 

_

[_] < carby

(( )) < manifold

Motor

 

Like shorten the runners and add more of a bend to them, so it drops the height of the carby down and pulls it away from the turbo?

 

I'll go onto paint tomorrow and show you what I mean and explain it better that way

 

Nahh I THINK I get what you mean, the reasoning was simply I couldn't be bothered starting from scratch.

So laziness is the answer there :P

 

I already had the log manifold which did work, so I just chopped the runners short and sat it next to the rocker cover.

This has an added advantage that when the engines nice and hot, the turbo help heats up the manifold; so you don't have fuel condensing on the walls. I still want to put a heat shield above the turbo, but that's more to protect the throttle cable.

 

If I have understood what your saying correctly, the main issue is that if you placed it over the engine you wont have any room for the carby and or turbo hat. Short of putting a bonnet bulge in place, its going to hit the bonnet. Iv dropped it down so the top of the rocker cover is 3/4 the way up the carby, and its still somewhat close to the roof with the turbo hat on top.

 

 

 

Anywho car update, fuel pumps just about in.

I went to a rude wrecker today, picked up a VL lift pump and re-jigged things so they fit nicely :)

 

 

Pump has been positioned right at the bottom, reasonably close to the drain plug.

I moved the original rubber stopper to underneath the pump, that way it wont be bounding around hitting the bottom.

The original fuel lines have been drilled out, and replaced, I also made a hole for the connector to fit in.

I have misplaced my silver solder though, so wont be ready till I buy some more.

Anywho its a good start, bit of progress today.

 

Will still need to buy some rather long EFI hose to run down to the front and back for the return.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Jaydnisevil

[Jaydnisevil]

I silver soldered the pipes in today, plugged the connector in etc.

After struggling to get my tank back in and the filler neck lined up, all back together, two nice holes for the pipes into the boot and making sure everything is secure, putting 20L of fuel into it.

Pumps dead -_-

This is why I hate wreckers, ʞ©$ɟ you centre road wreckers.. ʞ©$ɟ you.

In case your wondering why I did not test it before I put the pump in? Well I normally would have but I decided against it because get this.. I didn't want it to fail by running it dry.

 

Anywho my two nice little holes became a big access port so I could get the pump out of the hole in the tank (Tight bloody fit, had to shimmy it out)

I'm not going to show a photo of that because its awful to look at. Once the new pumps in, ill neaten it up put some edge gaurd on it and make a cover plate.

I'm also looking at surge tanks, but funds are running a little low. May have to wait now -_-

Edited March 25, 2012 by Jaydnisevil