Why Do You Think We Need A Govt??

[Twinky]

One thing to think about guys, Policemen, Firemen, Ambulance services. Now I know we do have an emergency services levy but the government pays the rest of the bill.

With no government who would pay them? The bill would land on your lap or worst case the firemen would just watch your house burn down to the ground because you have no cash to

save it! With that how many of you have had your house/car catch fire? Very few I would say thus not generating any decent revenue for the firemen. So when you do go up in flames

it would cost you both your arms and most of your leg. Just something to ponder.....

[altezzaclub]

But that is no different to any risk in life Twinky- We all decide how much risk we are willing to shoulder and we insure against the rest. Yes, we might have ambulance drivers who would want to see your insurance card first (or run an EFTPOS terminal over your wallet!) but that is the same as going into a supermarket without money. You want something, you will have to pay for it or beg for it. Christchurch has just taught people a lot about having insurance, and also demonstrated the unnoticed lesson about people's charitable instincts even above Govt tax.

 

Just what are those services costing you at the the moment?? Probably far more than what you expect. After all, you are giving away 20years of your working life to the State, so you will only have 25years left to set up your life and save for your retirement! Overall, I've always found that the private sector is far more efficient than the public sector (having worked n both) and competing companies are the best way to keep costs down.

 

If you want to see how bad things are, read about the powers of the tax dept. They have total power to examine everything in your life in the aid of making you a slave to the State, while the Police are hobbled in their pursuit of the other criminals stealing from you-

 

http://pc.blogspot.com/2011/10/power-to-pillage-but-not-to-surveil.html

 

 

[altezzaclub]

You seem to be in some middle ground between stateless and statist society, maybe a minarchist?

 

Well, I'm aiming for a Libertarian Govt Irokin, but I'm happy for any steps towards giving freedom back to the individual. This hasn't happened in my lifetime with the exception of the economy in the 1980s when Roger Douglas and his cronies saved NZ. The country was like Greece right now, but no-one was aware of it outside Parliament, and The Gang of Four used the Labour Party to free up the economy in a way that set NZ up for the next 30years. Since then Labour has tried to grab all that power back, and National has done nothing to move it further forward, but it was a life-saving move. Why do you think a fuel filter costs $95 here and $55 there.

 

Look at Steve Jobs- the effect that one capitalist has on the world is so positive, and the effect of one Socialist (say, Obama) is so negative! The Govt is not the answer, they are the problem!

 

 

[Twinky]

Checkmate?

[ke70dave]

in a side not, it would be nice if politicians had some sort of experience in their given field. you can imediately tell when a politician has absoluately know idea what he /she is talking about. especially when asked a somewhat technical (ie important!) question.

 

ie the minister for health and what not, it should be a requirement to have spent X amount of years working in the health field.

 

and the minister for agriculture, should be a famer at one stage.

 

minister for infrastructure and transport, should be an engineer of some sort.

 

all these people with all the power, and all they can do is talk well in front of a crowd?

 

hows this bloke, current minister for infrastructure and transport,

 

http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FR36%22

 

as far as i can see, bachelor of economics?

 

where is the bachelor of civil engineering or town planning, to help him understand infrustructure and transport?

 

so then they get advice from people, all of which will have an agender behind them, all the pathetic "studies" that are done, when the results have been decided before the study was done. "make the results fit what we want" approach. talk in front of a crowd, win some votes. job done.

 

now i know it takes a certain type of person to be a politicion, and not all civil engineers suit that. But given how often they seem to change minister figure heads, how many of them actually know what they are doing? or spend long enough in the same job to understand?

 

if a politician has been a politician all their years, what experience do they have in making decisions for the work places/environments that they have never set foot in?

[irokin]

Look at Steve Jobs- the effect that one capitalist has on the world is so positive, and the effect of one Socialist (say, Obama) is so negative! The Govt is not the answer, they are the problem!

 

Buddhism does great things eh? Though in a corporate sense, Apple would rate as one of the most totalitarian corporations I can think of. They seek complete and utter control of their devices in the hands of consumers and its really only law that is preventing that.

 

Dave: Technocracy

 

My suspicion is though that a technocracy would probably lead to a totalitarian technocracy.

[parrot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

Ther's always a Python solution Edited October 7, 2011 by parrot

[ke70dave]

damn they have a bloody word for everything.

 

i guess its more evidence that no system is perfect.

[altezzaclub]

My suspicion is though that a technocracy would probably lead to a totalitarian technocracy.

 

I'm damm sure! Ever tried to disagree with an engineer? They would lock all freedom up in a straightjacket of engineering science and there would only be one way of doing anything forever!

 

Meanwhile-

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHXBL6bzAR4

 

 

[irokin]

there would only be one way of doing anything forever!

 

What a load of bollocks. Science by definition is forever trying to prove itself wrong, correct itself and discover new knowledge.

[altezzaclub]

Science by definition is forever trying to prove itself wrong, correct itself and discover new knowledge

As clearly shown by CO2 causing global warming... now that idea has been firmly thrown out the Govts are abandoning their carbon taxes by the score....

 

Hmm... "The Science is Settled" ring a bell?? In theory you are right, but that example just shows why we DON'T want a Govt rushing off with the latest scientific theory and caning us with it. A technocracy would only work as a Libertarian Govt, otherwise it would be captured by the engineers in power who would never want their pet theories thrown out. I'm all for educated politician's so long as they can only raise money for their ideas voluntarily.

 

Anyone watching NZ's upcoming referendum on how they elect politicians? Rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic largely, but it shows that a democratic people can get fed-up with one-man one-vote and the results it produces.

 

Anyone want to pitch into why Aussie has so much Govt?? Three layers plus?? How the State Govts who handled the Federation could be so silly as to form a Federal Govt that could raise its own taxes? What would Aussie look like if Canberra had to form a budget then go to each State and say "we want this much money this year, please"??

 

 

[altezzaclub]

We got any Greeks on board?? Is this what you have heard of Greece... The IMF go in after Goldman-Sachs had raped it and loaned them money providing they had access to ANYTHING the Greeks owned if the debt wasn't paid off. The debt went into Greek coffers and straight out to pay foreign bankers, leaving Greece just as shafted.

 

Of course it could never happen here, "Australia is different"..... Our Govt wouldn't waste money, borrow too much, then shackle the people to serfdom to pay for it... Would they??

 

http://www.realecontv.com/videos/europe/what-it-means-when-your-country-goes-broke.html

 

 

[irokin]

What are you trying to prove? I feel like I'm being straw manned. Either that or we're about to head down conspiracy theory lane.

[altezzaclub]

No no, its just another example of what happens when you let a Govt represent you. In an anarchy or a Libertarian state that wouldn't be possible.

 

So, what happens to Greece and the PIGS?? Are they going to spend a couple of generations working hard to pay back debt that their Govts borrowed, or even end up in perpetual debt as serfs because they can't pay the principal back and just pay interest for years and years. I mean, its not that the people who will be grafting their asses off are the ones who particularly benefited from the loans either.

 

The videos surprised me, I hadn't heard anything from inside Greece to counteract the mainstream media view.

 

 

[MYSTIK[RL]]

One thing to think about guys, Policemen, Firemen, Ambulance services. Now I know we do have an emergency services levy but the government pays the rest of the bill.

With no government who would pay them? The bill would land on your lap or worst case the firemen would just watch your house burn down to the ground because you have no cash to

save it! With that how many of you have had your house/car catch fire? Very few I would say thus not generating any decent revenue for the firemen. So when you do go up in flames

it would cost you both your arms and most of your leg. Just something to ponder.....

 

you do know that the emergency services levy only applies to fixed and mobile property i.e houses and vehicles. that and from my understanding doesnt apply to the ambulance service, cause if you take a ride in an ambulance without any form of ambulance cover you will find a nice letter with a big please pay me bill in it. I know from a family experience from earlier this year, footing an $800 bill for calling an ambulance for a sick family member. :wink: