You can see it there

Great Viterbo !  I'm pretty sure I've got one in my shed somewhere, but I couldn't find it a couple of weeks ago.  If I can't find it, I'll grab one off ebay, or see if I can find a Starlet at a wreckers here in Brissy.  Is that on your engine. If so, what thermo-fan did you use ?

Cheers Banjo

Hi Jeremy,

Quote

yeh i tried to find where i saw that and i can't find it. i thought it was on here. someone talked about fitting an echo motor because it somewhat lined up with the k box or something. i actually thought it was u banjo.

It was in a post called A Bit of Lateral Thinking.

https://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/73209-a-bit-of-lateral-thinking/?tab=comments#comment-708383

Unfortunately, there aren't any points on the block that you could easily fit engine mounts to to make an East/West engine, fit a RWD Rolla. Mating a RWD gearbox, would also require a purpose made adaptor plate.

Cheers Banjo

That's a google picture. I have a 5K but I'm running all the Starlet gear, including the Starlet fan

A lot of Toyota motors have a series of different water housings you can fit depending on the switching requirements.  I just dropped using the sa63 thermostat housing on a 4sfe for a 3sfe rav 4 one because it had the sensor location for the fan I needed as well.  It was m16x1.5 thread for the sensor, most fan switches are that thread, including some Toyota ones.  I think I read someone elses writeup on rollaclub years ago, maybe altezzaclubs, in a thread about doing the fan this way on a ke.  Its way better than those davies craig probes that you had to jam in a hose years ago.  You could even have two of them, working at different temps and have a staged fan setup, so if it gets next level hot the next fan comes on like oem stuff.

 

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You could even have two of them, working at different temps and have a staged fan setup, so if it gets next level hot the next fan comes on like oem stuff.

 

That's exactly what I plan on doing.  Instead of using commercial sensor/s with the switch built in, where the switching temperature is fixed, I was thinking of a single sensor only, (no switch), fed to a PICAXE programable uP, so that I can assign any control regime or system I wish, with adjustable temp switching points.  The PICAXE output, would, just switch an auto relay, to turn the fan on & off.  Could be fun, & allow ability to experiment, & get a result as good as possible.

Cheers Banjo  

 

1 hour ago, LittleRedSpirit said:

You could even have two of them, working at different temps and have a staged fan setup, so if it gets next level hot the next fan comes on like oem stuff.

http://www.tridon.com.au/products/Tridon/35/483/switches-and-sensors/2014/thermo-fan-switches

 

You can buy 2 stage temp  sensors for this exact purpose. There is a couple  listed from tridon.

Edited January 28, 20188 yr by ke70dave

Hi Dave,

               I'm aware you can get two (2) switches in one housing, but they are pre-set fixed switching temperature points, & I want to be able to adjust these switching points slightly, so I can achieve an ideal solution, once I've logged it all, at multiple points in the coolant sysytem, over different driving scenarios, & see how it all pans out.

 

Thanks !

Cheers Banjo

Edited January 28, 20188 yr by Banjo

Time for an arduino them,

2 x any temp sensors you like, basic arduino, 16x2 screen, 2 relays on the outputs. Bit of coding. 

I made something similar yrs ago. 

Hi Dave,

               Not into Ardinuo as yet.  Love my PICAXEs.  Hardware is so simple, & chips are so cheap, & the code only takes a few minutes to put together, for simple applications like a thermofan with multiple sensors, & run on timer etc.

I'll give you a look, once I get to that stage.

Stage 1, is grab this fan next week, & get it fitted to a KE radiator, then the fun begins.

Cheers Banjo

Do we think that fitting the heater hose coupling to the back of the head and running a hose to the water pump would help the rear cyl cool?

I'm sure you'll have a sensor in that plate on the back of the head, it will be interesting to see how much hotter it gets.

thats not a bad idea. i got a difference of about 10-15 degrees using the infrared laser thermometer last year (now broken) , on cylinder head between 1/2 compared to the very back just behind 4. These temps were just taken pointing it at the cylinder head near the spark plug holes. it was consisttently like that for me. can't remember exactly what those temps were, but i remember thwy were about 10-15 apart.

After that finding, i have since made sure to leave the new modified head gaskets well alone with the holes blocked in the front and centre of the engine. Previously i had drilled one of them out because i didnt like it, but it was a stupid thing to do, it probably makes a signfificant difference to the water supply to the back, and further, adding a seperate hose would again improve it further.

where would u get the water from, would have to be the bottom hose wouldnt it? or is there another outlet on the water pump u could use?

Quote

Do we think that fitting the heater hose coupling to the back of the head and running a hose to the water pump would help the rear cyl cool?

I'm sure you'll have a sensor in that plate on the back of the head, it will be interesting to see how much hotter it gets.

 

The plate on the back of the head was always going to play a crucial function, in correcting this design issue, of higher temperatures at the rear of the K Series engines.

Industry's approach was to block the coolant transfer holes between block & head water jackets, in the front of the head gasket.

This had the desired effect of forcing the water to flow to the back of the block and then up into the head, then back forward to the thermostat housing, at the front of the engine.

This does improve the temperature differential from the front to back of the head, but not totally.  However, it also reduces the flow rate of coolant in the system, by effectively throttling it, midstream, which is undesirable.

The real problem is that the water pump forces "cooled" coolant into the front of the block, & the hot water exits the head, at the front of the head. The water will always take the path of least resistance, so flow to the back of the block & head is reduced considerably.

There are lots of radical things we could do, like mounting an external water pump, that fed water into the centre, or rear of the block via a Welsh plug point, but initially, I have a few ideas I want to try.

Many KE series Rolla's take hot water from the back of the head, for the cabin heater, which does improve flow, through the rear of the head.  The return of the hot water heater coil, is usually through a pipe or hose, to a point on the water pump, as this water doesn't need to be cooled, as it has given it heat off in the cabin. If the ON/Off tap on the coolant line at the firewall, was replaced with 2 way water valve, then coolant would flow out the back of the head, even when the heater was off, (which is most of the time). My plan is to try this out with multiple temp readings taken before & after the mod, to see how well it works.  It must improve it, as currently, there is no flow out of the back of the head, unless the heater is engaged. If there is still a differential, I believe we can equalise it, by restricting flow slightly out of the front of the head to the underside of the thermostat, which should result in increased flow to the rear.  I would also reinstate a head gasket, without any blocked transfer coolant holes.

The proof is always in the "eating of the pudding', so I'll see what eventuates. Changing the flow between head & thermostat housing at the front of the engine, is easily accomplished with a restrictor plate between the two.

Cheers Banjo

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 20188 yr by Banjo

Yeh that sounds like a plan. Could u not just simplify things by teeing into the lower hose tho? I kinda feel that taking water from the heater hose is taking hot water and putting in at the rear. 

But teeing into the bottom hose like I suggest is also flawed because the flow would want to go out the back through the new hose then into the lower hose and back to the pump.

Hmm. Need an extra seperate pump I think.

unfortunately the only OUTLET on the pump is into the block itself.

I recon a simple adaptor plate inserted between pump n block, cut out using CNC machine, with a relitively small outlet about 15 mm would be the absolute best approach. I have access to Cheap CNC companies here un cebu as part of another project I'm involved in,  and could possible ask them to knock one up for us.

With ur 2 thermometer readings, u could then tweak the hose restriction to get the perfect amount of flow through it for perfect even cooling along the entire head.

Edited January 29, 20188 yr by rebuilder86