Banjo

We all talk about static timing as being 8 or 10 or 12 deg BTC, as being important, but really it is only an initial "static" setting, that allows us to get the car started. The most important ignition setting is the dynamic advance setting, which is the advance whilst the car is running, under various load conditions. However, few of us ever get to check the dynamic setting. We just assume it gets there. The maximum dynamic setting, is the sum/total of the static setting (rotating the distributor at rest until the points just open) plus the maximum centrifugal advance, which is the function of the little "bob weights" under the dizzy plate, that don't get looked at often. If you do ever pull your dizzy to bits one day, you will notice that the little bob weights, or the adjacent plate, have a little number stamped on them like 14 or 18 or 21 or something similar. This number is the maximum number of degrees of advance, those particular centrifrugal bob weights & springs can provide, Some people play with these weights, end stops & springs, to increase the maximum advance possible. You will also notice that the two little springs are different, one being "lighter" than the other. This is so one bob weigh moves out first, The other heavier one then adds to it, as revs increase, to provide a 2 stage advance curve. So lets say your static advance ignition setting is 12 deg., & lets say the bob weight/s have 14 stamped on it. The total advance possible is therefore 26 deg. The maximum advance in our little K series engines is all achieved by the time the revs have reached say 2500 - 3000 rpm. So the most important thing to determine, to my mind, is to ensure that when your engine is running at 3000+ rpm, that the advance reaches this possible maximum. So what about this vacuum advance you/we are discussing here. As vacuum decreases, with the engine under load, with W.O.T. (wide open throttle) the vacuum actuator on your dizzy, actually retards the advance. This is because under load, the engine "sucks" harder, and with greater density, it ignites easier,earlier, (not as lean), so not as much advance is needed. That's it in a nutshell, but there are plenty of places on the net where you can read about that in more detail. So this is why when you set your static advance setting, you always take off the vacuum line & block it, so it has no effect, on the setting. So once you get your motor running, you should set the dynamic advance to the maximum recommended possible. As we can't change the bob weights action, without modifying them, the maximum achievable is still adjusted by rotating the dizzy, with the clamp just nipped slightly. However this is done at 3000+ rpm, rather than at idling. The reason this method is not used widely, is that you need a timing light to check that you are achieving say 26 deg, as in the example above. However, a timing light is a very good addition to your toolbox, if you are serious about getting the most out of your K series motor. The problem with this technique is that to read 26 deg of advance on the timing chain cover is difficult, as the markings usually only go to 20 deg BTDC. Now you can guess where say 26 deg is, or pre-mark it on the case, or get a adhesive degree strip, to stick on the edge of your crankshaft pully, but it must be a strip designed for that precise dia. pulley. The timing light manufacturers have overcome this issue, by adding a knob you can turn to retard the flash, until it lines up with TDC instead of say 26 deg. The 26 deg, is then read out on a little LED screen. From your description, it sounds like the current p/u point on the inlet manifold is causing your problems, or maybe the vacuum actuator on the dizzy is faulty. Try the sucking on a plastic tube connected to the vacuum actuator, & see if the dizzy contacts plate moves. You might also have an air leak on the inlet system somewhere that is causing the engine to idle fast. The first bob weight usually starts to move around 1200 - 1500 rpm. The idle must be down around 800-1000 rpm, to ensure that the bob weights are not advancing the timing at idle. The possibility is that a bob weight spring has fallen off and there is nothing holding back one or both of the bob weights. Let us know what you find. Sounds like your teacher is doing well, and created a great interest in you to question why things work as they do. Cheers Banjo

Wow ! If they were any cheaper, they'd be giving them away. Thanks for the feedback. I know a little KE20 around here locally, belonging to a Rollaclub member, with rather dim headlights, that could well benefit from one of these. I'll put her in the know. Cheers Banjo

They look like a good alternative solution, except they are designed for plugging directly onto an H4 headlight bulb, rather than an external driving light. I guess Rob could always cut off the H4 plugs on the harness/cable, & directly connect to the trailer plug he was considering using, so that the driving lights, pod could be moved, to open the bonnet. Has anyone used these ebay harnesses ? Would be nice to hear from someone, as to their quality. They certainly are cheap ! Cheers Banjo

Hi Rob, I think the relay you are referring to is the NARVA P/N 72386. It has five (5) connectors, but is not a "changeover" relay, like many others. There are 2 off output N.O. terminals called 87, that are the same point, so presumably two (2) loads can be easily connected to the one relay. These are a high quality European relay, and I would think, not cheap. You could probably purchase a pack of five (5) "China" 12V Auto Relays for less that 1 off NARVA relay. Here is a circuit you could use to wire up 4 off Driving Lights using 2 off NARVA relays. I would suggest 2 off fuses, so a light failure causing a blown fuse does not take out all the lights. I would also suggest that you wire them straight back to the battery +ve terminal, which you advised is not too far distant. A 60A Maxi in-line fuse connected to the terminal, will portect the wiring between battery & relays/fuses. This will minimise voltage drops between battery & lights. If you choose to go the cheaper "China" auto relays, I would suggest using the ones with the built-in 30A blade fuse. For less than $ 20.00, you can get 5 off relays, with fuses & leads/tails, delivered free. These relays mean you don't have to worry about installing an inline or mounted fuse block. Let us know how it all pans out. Cheers Banjo

Hi Rob, Sorry missed your post over the weekend, as I was away. Quick question ! The four (4) off driving lights in the pod. Are they all identical ? Are they LED, or conventional ones ? What is the DC current draw on each of them, with a 12-14 volt supply ? How close is the battery to the front of the car, or where the lights are to be located ? Eliminating possible voltage drop is always the most important element in this particular exercise. I've done a couple off these previously, for rallying applications, and have found that multiple relays are best, where there are multiple driving or fog lights. The reason being, is that when rallying, you definitely do not want your driving lights droping out, as you crest a hill at 100 klm/hr, in a dark forest. There are a lot of the standard 30A automotive relay around that originate from China, that are not of the highest quantity. I use them myself, but do take precautions. Primarily, many of them are not sealed & water ingress at the front of the car, from splashes on water crossings during rallying, could be an issue. The direction of mounting the relay, can assist, and you can seal them with a bit of Sealastic or similar. Just never mount them with the spade terminals facing up, or towards the front of the car, behind the grill ! Shock proof mounting them, also relieves the chance of a rough road resulting in a relay dropping out temporarily. If you have one relay per light, (or per 2 lights), then if a relay fails, whilst driving, you won't be in the dark. Likewise, I like to fuse them separately for the same reason, so if one light, or it's lead causes a s/c, it doesn't take out all four lights. Cheers Banjo

As you only did the solid lifter conversion about 4-5 months ago, & used part of the original hydraulic lifters, can you describe what that conversion entailed ? Now you mentioned that the tappet clearance is getting out of wack by itself, that is possibly indicating that there is something not right with the lifter mods. Cheers Banjo

Hi Ben, Dave's suggestion is excellent, as having the genuine Toyota "Yellow Bible" on the K Series, is probably one of the best investments you'll ever make, if you are going to play with a K series engine. I got one early in my journey, which covers 2K to 5K-C, and it has been invaluable. Most functions of reassembling a K Series engine are straight forward, simple, & logical, but fitting the timing chain, & aligning the crankshaft & camshaft sprockets, is one area, where if you get it wrong, it can prove dissasterous, & cause a lot of frustration, after the engine is assembled & ready to test for the first time. By that time the engine is probably already back in the engine bay, & all hooked up. The alignment is critical, & is covered in the "Yellow Bible" & the Haynes/Gregorys manuals. Essentially the timing is carried out with the engine at TDC on no: 1 & 4 cylinder. The crankshaft sprocket should be fitted first to the crankshaft, with its key fitted. The crankshaft should then be turned slightly, if required, until the "dot" marking on the outer of the crankshaft sprocket is on the lower side of the engine, and is in line with an imaginary line passing through the centre point of both crankshaft & camshaft. (see diagram in pictures below) The camshaft is then rotated, without its sprocket until the locating pin for the sprocket, lines up with inner mark on camshaft retaining plate, which again, are all in line with the imaginary line, passing through the centre points of both camshaft & crankshaft. This is now the critical point. The camshaft & crankshaft cannot be allowed to move, whilst fitting the chain. With both sprockets on a flat surface, off the engine, fit the chain to both sprockets, such that when you pick up both sprockets & chain, that they slide onto the keyway (crankshaft) & locating pin (camshaft) without rotationally moving either sprocket. When fitted, a straight edge, (like a steel ruler) should line up with both outer sprocket marks & the centre points of both crankshaft & camshaft. Actually much simpler than it sounds, when you describe it, but it is important, because if the chain is out one or two links, then the engines valve & distributor timing will be out dramatically. Have a look at the relevant scans from the manuals below, & it should all gell, as "a picture paints a thousand words". P.S. The manuals refer to markings on the chain, which I've never been able to find, because the chains are old & discoloured. Whilst laying the sprockets on a flat surface, with a straight though the centre point of both sprockets, & sprocket markings, I've just put a dab on "white Out" on the relevant link at each end to assist. Good luck, & let us know how you go. Cheers Banjo

I didn't know Toyota made engines for M4 Sherman tanks ! Just goes to show, you're never too olde to learn something every day ! I guess it is like an oversized 7K ? Cheers Banjo

Hi Max, Any update on what you discovered with your 4K engine with glowing exhaust manifold ? Cheers Banjo

Hi Graeme, The dizzy aluminium body should have a little plate on it down on the side, with all the details, including which K series engine it made to be fitted to. The Bosch dizzies are usually larger in dia. than the Denso ones. Toyota used both brands at different times. Do you know whether this dizzy is the original one fitted to this particular engine. I presume it has points. Post a picture of it, if you can. Cheers Banjo

Nice thoughts ! Cheers Banjo

Wayne, Do you realise Mark is in Arkansas in the USA, & that postage of a pump to him would cost many times more than the pump is worth ? Someone will have some N.O.S. over there somewhere. There are a couple of types of mechanical fuel pumps used on K series engines. There is a sealed unit, which has a return line on it, back to the tank. I've got one of those, but they are throw away, when they die. The really old ones with brass hose fittings & two halves can be disassembled easily, & I'm sure again there are repair kits for these with diaphragm, spring & little valves. I've seen them on ebay some time back. I think I actually rebuilt a pump like that once. I came across a Tridon oil pressure switch today, that looks like the STANDARD brand PS-64 one, I saw on the internet in the USA. The Tridon one even has a similar P/N, but the specs confused me, so I dropped their tech department an email today, to see if it works the same way. This one seems to be different, as instead of just 3 off voltage free connections, the Tridon one effectively has 4 terminals, with the normally closed terminal connected to the frame of the oil pressure switch, which is chassis. I'll let you know what they advise. Would solve my problem of getting one locally. They cost more to freight from the USA than they are worth. Cheers Banjo

Mark, The olde mechanical fuel pump on the K series engine is very simple, very reliable, & have performed well for many standard engines over many years. They do not entail any sort of electric power involvement, & are therefore basically trouble free. Most people never even think about their fuel pump. It just works, and about the only failure ever experienced is if the diaphram develops a hole. The mechanical pump doesn't need a pressure regulator; as soon as it experiences a back pressure from the carby, when the bowl fills, the fuel pump just stops pumping. To replace a fuel pump on the side of the road takes all of 15 minutes, & doesn't even require getting under the car. I have occasionally thrown a spare in the boot when i've gone of a long trip, but never had to use one. However, the mechanical pump is not good at sucking fuel over the length of the car, especially if there are partially blocked lines or there are issues with the tank breather system. I have also looked at fitting an electric pump, at the rear of the car, to overcome this possible issue, but there are a requirements for an electric pump to be primed, to run, & to be automatically shut down if the engine stops for any other reason, other than normally turning off the ignition. The added requirement of power means that an extra fuse, & relay are also required, so the ignition switch is not forced to carry the extra couple of amperes to run the electric fuel pump. The use of a oil pressure switch is a good addition, but then it gets a bit complicated to prime the pump. However, there is an oil pressure switch, which incorporates a changeover switch, rather than the simple "normally closed" switch. This switch is available in the USA, and is called a model PS-64, but I can't find one ex stock here in Australia. The use of this switch makes the electric requirements of this conversion much simpler, as detailed in this sketch I found on the internet. Cheers Banjo

Hi Max, Never heard of a K Series engine jumping a link, although I can't confirm it "cannot happen". K Series timing chains get pretty sloppy sometimes, to the point of the chain slapping against the inside of the timing chain cove, however to jump a link is a "big ask". Some K series motors had double row timing chains, & I would think it would be less possible with one of them. The chain could be fitted incorrectly, but as I presume as this motor has run successfully previously, that is probably not the cause of your issue. A possibility is that the location pin between the camshaft sprocket & end of camshaft could have sheared. No amount of adjusting of the dizzy timing will ever cure this, as the valve timing will be totally out. As previously advised, you really have to go back to square one & check the valve timing, by fitting a degree wheel, & noting the opening & closing of inlet & exhaust valves on cylinder no: 1, with reference to the engine specs. I assume the cam in this engine is stock standard. Whatever, the cause, you are going to have to check valve timing out, unless you want to remove the engine & the timing chain cover. If you can provide some history on this engine, and whether it has ever been stripped recently by yourself or others, that may lead to other possible reasons why this has occurred. Good luck with your investigative efforts, & let us know how you go. Cheers Banjo

Max, l've been thinking about this. Probably one or more of three things. ! 1. Running whilst very retarded. 2. Running very lean, which often causes it to race. 3. Has a big vaccum leak on the inlet manifold or under the carby. Cheers Banjo.

Hey Max, Just leave it now until tomorrow & it cools down ! Dave said you can't break a 4K, but you've got a serious problem there. if I was in Sydney, rather than Brissy, I'd be round there in a flash. Love to know what's causing this issue. While the engine is running & this exhaust manifold is glowing red hot, does the engine make any unusual noises ? I think it's back to the drawing board. Forget about carby & dizzy tune & settings. Time to pull all the spark plugs out, do a compression test, and maybe a leak down test, with compressed air. My guess is that big bang you experienced has blown something. I think there is something basically wrong with the engine, and you need to check out the engine integrity first before anything else. Cheers Banjo

Hi Joey, Thanks for your answers & feedback. Before you go pouring money into your little KE35, a couple of other thoughts. The body is the basis for everything you will do to this car. If the body is not up to scratch, then you are putting good money after bad. Your pics indicate a pretty clean little car. What do you know about the history of the car, & from your close inspection ? Has it got any rust in it, or any signs of rust being cut out previously ? It the paintwork original, or has it been resprayed at some time previously ? If it's got lots of "bog" in it, then I'd give it the miss, for any sort of competition work. Cars in excess of 40 years old tend to get a bit "floppy" & unstiff. I've seen Rollas that age, doing a bit of "crabbing", when you follow them from behind. The pillarless coupes like yours are the worst. Your body relies heavily on the strength in the upper rear quarter panels, where there are multiple layers of metal, and they rust out in there, out of sight. If you take it to a good wheel alignment place, they'll be able to tell you how far out the back & front wheel alignments are offset. They can be jigged, & all the floor pan stitch welding, can be seam welded, which will usually pull them back in, & stiffen them up considerably. Jacking them up high on one corner & seeing how far the other side droops is usually an eye opener, & will give some indication of how "soft" the body rigidity is. There's a lot of inspections & tests you can do, pre spending money on it, that won't cost a lot, but could save you a heap down the track, if you discover "surprises" later on during the build. Cheers Banjo

Hi Joey, Welcome aboard ! OK. Others on here will need a few more details, before providing suggestions on what you could/couldn't ; should/shouldn't do. I presume it has a manual gearbox ? Is it a 4 or 5 speed ? Is the "adjustable front suspension" referring to coil-overs on the original struts ? Has anything been done already to upgrade the brakes ? How much have you budgeted to spent on your little beauty ? (Just love those KE35s) Had a KE55 coupe for years, but it went to "cancer heaven". As a very minimum, with minimal mods & costs, I'd suggest looking at replacing the 3K with a 4K, unless you are competing in club classes for 1200cc & under. It always comes down to how far you want to go, & how much $$$ you can afford to spend. Another big consideration, is how much of the intended "conversion" work you can do yourself, & how much you will have to pay others to complete. What other vehicles do you have in your "bunch of cars" ? Cheers Banjo

Hi Kevin, The whole body of the car is the return path for all accessories to the negative terminal of the battery. Because the fog lamps & front turn indicators are on the bumper bar, both turn & fog lights will have an earth wire going back to the body, which I'm guessing is not grounded at all, or is rusty. When this earth is not present, both lights will try to work at the same time in series, which means each has 6 volts across it, which makes them both dim, & the turn indicators flash at a slow rate, because there is less current flowing through the turn indicators flasher unit. Do as Jon has suggested, & run a wire from the negative battery terminal to the turn indicators & the fog light earth wires, which could be a white wire. I'm guessing that the where the bumper bar bracket bolts onto the chassis is very rusty also. Let us know if that fixes it. Cheers Banjo

Hi James, Sorry, you are right ! That was off the top of my head. 0.8mm or 30 thou is the plug gap, & 0.45mm or 18 thou is the points gap. Haven't had points in my Rolla for so long. Went solid state long ago. With points gap & olde cars, with worn dizzy cams, it is always advisable to set the points gap on the cam lobe with the with the smallest gap. This will result in the other three (3) lobes providing slightly larger gaps, but this is not an issue. Usually the gaps will always decrease between points adjustments, as the fibre rubbing block on the points wears down/away. That's why you must put Vaseline or a grease lubricant on the dizzy cam. I always used to set my points at 20 thou to cater for this. Cheers Banjo

Hi Tim, Welcome aboard !. KE series cars were built before baby cars seats were a commodity, so I'm not sure they were ever originally designed to accept car seat mounting & loading points. When I've had the back seat out & the parcel shelf removed to reline it, I noted the "iron work" in that area supporting the parcel shelf didn't look thick enough to be used as archorage points for the back/top of a baby seat. The existing rear seat belt anchor points are from the floor under the seat, & above the rear wheel wells, To ensure you are legal, I would suggest going to a company that professionally fits baby car seats & modules. I'm sure they would have come across this issue & know a solution, or could advise you. Maybe there is someone on here who has been through your exercise previously, & can shed some light on a solution. Let us know how you go, & good luck ! Cheers Banjo

Hi Max, Just love these who dunits ! I'm with Keith, in that I definitely think that its ignition timing or settings. Particularly, as the bang occurred straight after you checked the plugs, points & timing. To ensure that the engine isn't damaged in some way, I'd be pulling all the plugs first, checking the insulator colouring, to see if they have been running lean or rich, & that their colours are all the same. Then if you can get hold of a compression tester, check all four cylinders & see if any one is low, or that they all don't have about the same readings. As far as the ignition timing & settings go, I would start from scratch as others have advised, & during the process, you will discover what the problem or issue is, by working systematically through the settings. Did you perhaps remove the distributor completely from the engine to clean & set it ? If the dizzy is removed, there is always the risk of fitting it 1 tooth out, when reinserting the dizzy & engaging with the camshaft. 1. While the spark plugs are out, turn the crankshaft (19mm spanner) until TDC markings line up on the camshaft chain cover. Bear in mine that this maybe TDC No1, or TDC No 4,so to be sure you may have to remove the rocker cover & watch the sequence of the inlet & exhaust rockers on No: 1 cylinder. 2, Once you are sure that you have TDC No: 1, lift the dizzy cap & make sure the rotor is directly pointing to the pin in the cap inside, whose associated HV lead goes to Spark plug no; 1 at the front of the engine. The remaining leads should be connected to spark plugs 3, 4, & 2, from no: 1, in a clockwise direction, looking down on top of the dizzy. 3. If the leads are not as above, then swap them around, until it is as I describe. 4. Check the inside of the dizzy cap very carefully after cleaning it, that there are no carbon tracks between contact pins. Also make sure spring loaded carbon pin is OK, and that it provides some downward pressure on the top of the rotor. 5. If all OK, then turn the engine by hand until the points open maximum, with the rubbing block on the top tip of the cam. Set to the recommended gap 0.45mm or 18 thou & tighten. Turn the engine & check the gap on the remaining 3 lobes, to make sure the gap readings are essentially the same. A big difference indicates the cam is worn. 6. Now turn the engine over slightly until the points are fully closed, just before no: 1. With a trouble lamp clipped across the points, turn the dizzy ever so slowly, unit the trouble lamp lights. 7. Now check where the pointer on the crank shaft is pointing to, on the markings on the timing chain cover. 8. It should be pointing to somewhere between 8-12 deg C. If not then turn the engine until the crankshaft pulley points to 10 deg BTDC. Now unclamp the distributor clamp slightly & rotate the dizzy carefully, until the trouble lamp just lights again, as before. 9. This is called "static" timing and ensures that at 10 deg BTDC the points are just opening, so that the coil current collapses & fires spark plug no: 1. After that it's time to run it & see what transpires. There could still be other things causing mis-firing like a dead plug, or an open circuit or or HT lead breaking down, but at least you will know that the timing is OK. Trust that assists. Cheers Banjo

Welcome aboard Alana ! You are one Luckie Duckie ! Lots of jealous folks on this site reading your post. Pics please ! By my reckoning, that means this KE70 did less than 2000 klms per year average ! ! Was it stored for any length of time during its life, where it wasn't driven ? Love to hear its story, & how you came by it. Good Luck ! Any help we can provide, give us a yell. Cheers Banjo

Hi kevin, If the engine spins freely without spark plugs, then it sounds like the added compression, with spark plugs in, is too much for it. I'd squirt some engine oil down the spark plug holes & spin it with the starter motor for a minute & see if the spin speed increases, as the oil does its thing. It should spin very freely, at speed, without spark plugs. Remember every drop of oil has drained to the sump in a motor that has been sitting for years. If it has been sitting for some time, there could be other issues like stuck valves & the like. Clip spark plugs back on the leads, with spark plugs out, but touching the block or head, spin the motor again, & see if you get sparks across the spark plugs. Removing the rocker cover & observing the tappets, will show you whether you have any stuck valves. Cheers Banjo

Hi Kevin, If the starter turns over with the key in the ignition, whilst you have the starter earthed via the jumper lead connected to frame of starter & presumably the -ve battery terminal, but does not turn when you bolt it back onto the engine, it is a good indication that the earth lead between engine block & chassis & battery -ve terminal is at fault. Maybe one of the cables joining these items is missing or cactus. With the starter still in the engine, put your jumper lead as you had it before; onto the starter frame, & onto the negative battery terminal. If the car then starts OK, you've found your problem. The starter draws more current whilst starting, than any other component in the car. Any resistance between battery -ve terminal & the starter case will cause the symptoms you describe. The clicking is the solenoid or starter relay trying to pull in through this same resistance. Let us know how you go. Cheers Banjo