flat out Posted September 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 the way i see it if i have a std spring and one cut in half, if i put all my weight on the uncut one it will depress say 10cm? , with the cut one theres half as much spring so it would go down like 5cm thus making it harder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smacko84 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 amongst all the flaming (and I'm sure to cop some too) when i put my king springs in my kesev the front was still an inch too high for me. When i arrived home the next day my old man had cut a coil off the top of them as you would with normal stock springs. The ride height is what i wanted and i don't go pushing the car so i have not noticed any difference. They do drop down when the front is jacked up but i just lower it half way down and make sure they are seated correctly before lowering her all the way down. as i said it wasnt the right thing to do but it was done. Its been like that for 3 years and i havent felt any negatives from doing it. Its not a matter of being tight about doing things right, lack of knowledge played a factor. and thats about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smacko84 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 the way i see it if i have a std spring and one cut in half, if i put all my weight on the uncut one it will depress say 10cm? , with the cut one theres half as much spring so it would go down like 5cm thus making it harder its the same, its still compressing to 50% of its original length/height? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerondownunder88 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Red is 100% correct. To make a spring harder you have usually got to get thicker gauge wire. Or pends hot it was heat treated and wound also but usually just wire gauge will do it. Cutting the springs the heat kills the metals temper and well will damage them. And there very dangerous to have so I say sell the springs ebay prob get $100 for them and get customs springs what $140 easy $40 you get custom safer better ride and all in your springs personally not a hard choice as to the option I would go. Just do it properly. Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 (edited) theres less spring so it makes it harder Erm.... no. You're not really changing the rate (although you are de-tempering the spring with heat), you're changing the height. The way to make it harder is to make the spring thicker. Or something. Actually flat out is correct. A coil spring is basically a torsion bar which has been wound up to conserve space. Take two torsion bars of the same diameter, one a given length and one 20% shorter.... the short one will be stiffer due to less leverage. If you take a coil spring which has say 5 active coils and cut one coil off, you will increase the spring rate by 20%. Obviously cutting isn't ideal if it heats up the spring too much. The main reasons that most cars with chopped coils handle like shit, is because the cheapskate owners do not increase the dampening rate of their shocks to match the increased spring rate they end up with, causing a bouncy choppy ride. Also once you lower a car to much you f@$k up the suspension geometry which alters the roll center of the car, causing increased body roll for a given cornering load. Edited September 13, 2007 by Felix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coln72 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 As a metallurgist by qualification, the amount of heat generated and the area it is spread over will not kill the spring. Around the cut the metals structure will be altered but if you cut slowly (don't do it in one big hit the metal should not be "burnt", take a rest) and do not quench the end result (so it doesn't turn brittle) you should be right. Also Rob, this is one of the few times I disagree with you. The stiffness of the spring DOES depend on the number of the coils. It also depends on diameter of the spring and the thickness of the wire. The shorter the length of wire in any given spring the stiffer it will be as there is less wire to do the twisting. can't remember the formular off the top of my head but I can dig it up. In the example used above, if everything else stays the same - weight of say 100kg is applied - the first spring has a rate of 100/10 = 10kg/cm while the second has a rate of 100/5 = 20kg/cm Twice as stiff. Shit I did remember something of Uni. Must of actually went to theat class :locked: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas_ae71 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 (edited) alot of short strokes shock don't make the spring fully captive although the do help and work better than normal stroke shocks. if your concerned about the heat of cutting use a hack saw, causes much less heat. i have used cut standard springs with standard shocks and have not had a spring fallout how ever this is a possibility especaly with stiffer springs if short stroke shocks are not used. RCA's (roll centre ajusters) grately help to restore suspension geometary reducing bump steer. also if you have a really low car cutting the bump stops down a little isnt a bad idea but remember to leave some therr. cut springs in a paddock basher..? too much effot and you want the clearence.. Edited September 13, 2007 by tas_ae71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anastasios Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 yep ive used cut springs in many of our cars and have never had a problem, they might move of their seat when jacked up, but its not hard to buy some short stroke shocks, what about all the xe7x drivers using cut fords in the rear of their cars? i havent heard of any problems and run them in the rear of my 71 as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwarf Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Okay, I'm wrong. :locked: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 Ive seen one car loose control from cut springs so i will keep away from them. Each to their own. Des :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas_ae71 Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 more info..?? a car with a lower centre of gravity will handle better but if proper measures arnt taken it will casue bump steer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irokin Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 more info..?? a car with a lower centre of gravity will handle better but if proper measures arnt taken it will casue bump steer. But thats forgetting that the shock absorber is a MAJOR part of the suspension. The difference between a $200 and a $2000 set of correctly setup shock absorbers is MASSIVE. Hopefully I can post lap times towards the end of the year to demonstrate this. Even with the lower COG, because you've now moved the shock absorbers out of their stroke range AND they're now incorrectly valved because of the higher rate springs your handling is going to be worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 more info..?? a car with a lower centre of gravity will handle better but if proper measures arnt taken it will casue bump steer. VN wagon flogin around some dirt roads, Left rear spring fell out and 180 spin onto the wrong side of the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love ke70 Posted September 14, 2007 Report Share Posted September 14, 2007 just captivate the spring. ie, run a bar across the bottom, flat, coil and either U-bolt it or if theres a hole in the centre of the seat bolt it down to that. bumpstop should guide it back into place. this is whats done on 4wd's when we go to a shock longer than the full extension of the spring to get even more articulation. works quite well :D on note of rear falcon springs, the sierra shocks alot of people pair them with are so bloody short its ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesrolla Posted September 16, 2007 Report Share Posted September 16, 2007 i have run cutties i heaps of my cars, its basically the firs tthing i do to a car when i get it, i run the AU falcon springs in the back of my ae71, thye are cut in half and seem to bee extremly strong, and i placed them abck in so the cut part was at the top not the bottom and i run hk monaro shocks, they work great for me, jsut as long as you ahve a set of decent even standard shocks cutties can improve a car out of sight, jsut cut em casey, who cares last week while i was browsing on ebay i saw a set of sprints for a ke20, they were lowered springs but the guy ran stock inserts, so he welded a bolt onto the top and the bottom of the springs and drilled holes in his spring seats and bolted them in liek this, why not do this? then your springs captive, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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